CROWNS

[Peter]

Lovely coin.

It has been mentioned before but what is a naked man doing riding a horse the size of a Great Dane?

[Peckris]

Lovely coin.

It has been mentioned before but what is a naked man doing riding a horse the size of a Great Dane?

And killing a dragon the size of a Labrador

Yes, it's a beaut of a crown. As for proofs, those crowns weren't issued for circulation I believe, so in a way they're ALL proofs. Kind of.

[Peter]

Lovely coin.

It has been mentioned before but what is a naked man doing riding a horse the size of a Great Dane?

And killing a dragon the size of a Labrador

Yes, it's a beaut of a crown. As for proofs, those crowns weren't issued for circulation I believe, so in a way they're ALL proofs. Kind of.

The Dragon is appearing to tug at a non stallion appendage.

[Peter]

I digress it is a beautiful coin as minted and worthy of the finest collection.

[Rob]

I think it is likely that more examples will turn up in the future. The collar is made up of segments, so for yours to have a missing stop after TVTAMEN I suspect that a segment from the 1819 LIX collar set with no edge stops was used. Could you get a picture of the edge for future reference and email it to me please? Then I can compare it with my no edge stops collar when I visit the bank next. Both coins are in similar grade, so we can eliminate wear from circulation in the comparison. What we need is to be able to accurately establish the position of the legend relative to the joints, edge and relative to each other in order to confirm the above hypothesis.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Rob

[Benny who]

I digress it is a beautiful coin as minted and worthy of the finest collection.

Thank you Peter,think this one will stay with me for a few years.

[Benny who]

Lovely coin.

It has been mentioned before but what is a naked man doing riding a horse the size of a Great Dane?

And killing a dragon the size of a Labrador

Yes, it's a beaut of a crown. As for proofs, those crowns weren't issued for circulation I believe, so in a way they're ALL proofs. Kind of.

I think everything is slightly disproportionate,including little George.

I think with these Crowns,they were handled with more care than any other coin of this period,I have seen one from PCGS which has the ref 50069005,which is an 1818.The 1819 and 1820's are easier to spot as most have had some type of lettering recut.I think I would agree that technically they would all be classed the same.

[Rob]

They were all hand engraved, so variations abound. Just comparing the two lines bordering the garter motto you see 15% difference in the separation giving a first impression that the lettering is a different size, but that is an optical illusion.

[Benny who]

I think it is likely that more examples will turn up in the future. The collar is made up of segments, so for yours to have a missing stop after TVTAMEN I suspect that a segment from the 1819 LIX collar set with no edge stops was used. Could you get a picture of the edge for future reference and email it to me please? Then I can compare it with my no edge stops collar when I visit the bank next. Both coins are in similar grade, so we can eliminate wear from circulation in the comparison. What we need is to be able to accurately establish the position of the legend relative to the joints, edge and relative to each other in order to confirm the above hypothesis.

Hi just took these pictures today.The first one is the 1819 on the bottom 1820 top no stop after Tutamen;

[Benny who]

[divemaster]

I was not sure if I should put this here,or in the coin of the week,however this is a recent purchase,the fields are mirror finished(which goes back to the original question,with regards to Proofs and circulation Crowns),George III Crowns in my opinion are harder to tell between the two types,or it may be that I have not seen a Proof yet.Rob managed to help me with dating this back to a collection in 1968.

The biggest find on this Crown for me was the N over M in Britanniarum,almost all of the 1818 Crowns have no lower left Serif on the M and a few types of 1819/1820 are also missing this Serif,so unsure if this Crown would explain the reason for this.It is also supposedly the only 1820 Crown with missing stop after Tvtamen.Sorry Divemaster if I hijacked your thread to show this,however I have seen your George III Crowns,which are very nice especially the 20217

[divemaster]

MMMMM lovely crown Benny, the only thing is that mark in front of the eye, is it a divot or mark?

[divemaster]

Say what you want about the midget on back of a donkey slaying a labrador, I think Pistrucci got it spot on I love this design.

[Benny who]

This is the same image,the distance between the N and the seam is 6 denticles or just less than,however not as close as half of one,if that makes sense;

This next image is for the 1819 no stops on edge,the distance is slightly more 6 almost 7 just slightly less than;

[Rob]

Thanks. Certainly no obvious stop. Is there a small raised pimple which could be a guide for where it should be which could be a guide punch? Playing around with the contrast there is a circular consistently toned and stop sized patch in the right place, so possibly it could be blocked as an alternative. Rather more intriguingly, playing with the contrast brings out an 8 to the right of where the stop should be. There are no arabic numeral edge dates that I am aware of and a quick check showed nothing in L&S or ESC. Anything in the hand?

Edited March 7, 2013 by Rob

[Benny who]

MMMMM lovely crown Benny, the only thing is that mark in front of the eye, is it a divot or mark?

No just a little dirt will have to see if I can remove it,before it does any Damage.

[Benny who]

Say what you want about the midget on back of a donkey slaying a labrador, I think Pistrucci got it spot on I love this design.

This to me is the best design for a Crown,the differences within the three years,gives you enough to collect without being a daunting task.

[Peckris]

Say what you want about the midget on back of a donkey slaying a labrador, I think Pistrucci got it spot on I love this design.

This to me is the best design for a Crown,the differences within the three years,gives you enough to collect without being a daunting task.

Forget the obsessive hunting down of minute varieties - you're spot on with the first half of your sentence. Type collectors will have to pay out for ANY decent example of this lovely Crown, but like the 1804 dollar, the rare varieties aren't truly reflected in the values (probably because it was never a circulating denomination). I think collectors just love it for what it is.

[Benny who]

They were all hand engraved, so variations abound. Just comparing the two lines bordering the garter motto you see 15% difference in the separation giving a first impression that the lettering is a different size, but that is an optical illusion.

There are the thicker line garters and also what you have mentioned,and a few that do not match up to the garter buckle.

If you look on the Crown the dragon and hind leg of the horse have been double struck to give a almost 3D apearence.

IMO the 1820 over 19 is from something similar to what you saying,however the original Crown were struck with 181 with the last number left,then when 1820 came these had to be reworked from exsisting dies from both years,so some similarity is seen on the 18/19 as on the 1820 Crowns.

This picture is just another difference found on the egde;

This is an 1820 LX Crown with a stop after LX and not the star/cinguefoil.There is no over stamp or repunch it is just a full stop

[Rob]

I've noticed in the past the 1820/19 has several dies. One had a particularly obvious 9 whilst another had a strong underlying 1, but the latter wasn't missing the 9 in the first place as it still had a trace - so not a 181 recut. How many obverse dies are there for the overdate?

[Benny who]

Say what you want about the midget on back of a donkey slaying a labrador, I think Pistrucci got it spot on I love this design.

This to me is the best design for a Crown,the differences within the three years,gives you enough to collect without being a daunting task.

Forget the obsessive hunting down of minute varieties - you're spot on with the first half of your sentence. Type collectors will have to pay out for ANY decent example of this lovely Crown, but like the 1804 dollar, the rare varieties aren't truly reflected in the values (probably because it was never a circulating denomination). I think collectors just love it for what it is.

I agree with you,At this time the mint were saying look this is what we can do now.This has left a good selection of these Crowns and people can actually aquire a well preserved piece at a good price.

I unfortunatly started to collect the minor varieties 'small p over large p' 'different edge lettering'all of which has turned it into a larger undertaking.

[Benny who]

I've noticed in the past the 1820/19 has several dies. One had a particularly obvious 9 whilst another had a strong underlying 1, but the latter wasn't missing the 9 in the first place as it still had a trace - so not a 181 recut. How many obverse dies are there for the overdate?

I am not sure how many were recut for the 1820,these are two one has a straight forward 1 through the 2,however the second has been more carfully concealed.The two is also out of line if you know what I mean,both the 0 have not been altered.

Do you have the pictures for the altered 1819 to 1820?

[Rob]

Not any more, I sold them about 6 or 7 years ago and they weren't high enough grade to warrant keeping images as one was only VF or a bit better whilst the other was aEF.

[Benny who]

Thanks. Certainly no obvious stop. Is there a small raised pimple which could be a guide for where it should be which could be a guide punch? Playing around with the contrast there is a circular consistently toned and stop sized patch in the right place, so possibly it could be blocked as an alternative. Rather more intriguingly, playing with the contrast brings out an 8 to the right of where the stop should be. There are no arabic numeral edge dates that I am aware of and a quick check showed nothing in L&S or ESC. Anything in the hand?

HI just checked them over again nothing at all to suggest it being blocked,both surfaces are smooth and conform to the surrounding area.

[Rob]

Thanks. Certainly no obvious stop. Is there a small raised pimple which could be a guide for where it should be which could be a guide punch? Playing around with the contrast there is a circular consistently toned and stop sized patch in the right place, so possibly it could be blocked as an alternative. Rather more intriguingly, playing with the contrast brings out an 8 to the right of where the stop should be. There are no arabic numeral edge dates that I am aware of and a quick check showed nothing in L&S or ESC. Anything in the hand?

HI just checked them over again nothing at all to suggest it being blocked,both surfaces are smooth and conform to the surrounding area.

Oh well, never mind. It is always worth asking the question.