palves Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Hi, this coins belongs to a friend. He is worried about the source of the coin... I have compared to mine and I notice some differences on the "*" before "One Florin" and the axis of the coin is not 100% aligned.Whats your opinion?Thanks in advance. Quote
Gary Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Hi, this coins belongs to a friend. He is worried about the source of the coin... I have compared to mine and I notice some differences on the "*" before "One Florin" and the axis of the coin is not 100% aligned.Whats your opinion?Thanks in advance.No reason to believe that it is but I have heard of fake 1849 Florins. Die rotation is a commen error that goes mostly unnoticed and is not an indication of a fake. What is the weight of this coin? Quote
Peckris Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Hi, this coins belongs to a friend. He is worried about the source of the coin... I have compared to mine and I notice some differences on the "*" before "One Florin" and the axis of the coin is not 100% aligned.Whats your opinion?Thanks in advance.If it's not a fake, then it's a lovely coin. Quote
palves Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 No reason to believe that it is but I have heard of fake 1849 Florins. Die rotation is a commen error that goes mostly unnoticed and is not an indication of a fake. What is the weight of this coin?Weight: 10.8gMy friend's worries about the coin are also my worries. The coin looks very good, but it came from China for less than a quarter of the price when compared with mine (also considerably cheap when compared to Spink's price). So either you can buy good coins in China or the fakes are getting really good... Quote
Peckris Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 No reason to believe that it is but I have heard of fake 1849 Florins. Die rotation is a commen error that goes mostly unnoticed and is not an indication of a fake. What is the weight of this coin?Weight: 10.8gMy friend's worries about the coin are also my worries. The coin looks very good, but it came from China for less than a quarter of the price when compared with mine (also considerably cheap when compared to Spink's price). So either you can buy good coins in China or the fakes are getting really good...Gary of Format Coins in Birmingham told me a few years ago that he had more or less given up stocking British coins because of the Chinese problem. Quote
Rob Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) This one is kosher if you can spot any detail differences. I don't have the weight of it though.Is it me, or does the gap between the number bases on yours look closer together? This would be logical if the Chinese dies were made from a cast. Edited July 17, 2012 by Rob Quote
azda Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) And mine for another comparison. Buying from China is never a good idea Edited July 17, 2012 by azda Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Wouldn't there be slight die variations anyway? Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 And mine for another comparison. Buying from China is never a goodwhat's the weight of your's Dave? Quote
azda Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 And mine for another comparison. Buying from China is never a goodwhat's the weight of your's Dave?I'll get back to you with the weight. Quote
VickySilver Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, this is worrisome as where they IMO are most dangerous is when there is a "circulated" specimen of a rare date such as 1854, 62 or 63. These might be most vulnerable. Even though I feel familiar with the series I can not make the call based on the picture. It generally looks OK, but just not sure if there may not be a bit of difference in the bust - but this could be because of the toning/reproduction, etc.Leaning toward genuine though... Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's weight of 10.8g is wrong. 1849's should be 11.31gthe other gothic's 11.35g. Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's weight of 10.8g is wrong. 1849's should be 11.31gthe other gothic's 11.35g.My two 49's are 11.31 and 11.30, my gothic 11.34!Does anyone have a poor/fine example to hand that they could weigh? I don't think it would be too hard to knock 1/2 a gram or so off a well circulated example! Would certainly be interesting!I did weigh dozens of florins a couple of years ago as part of an exercise in buying scrap silver on eBay! Poor to good fine averaged out at 10.40g-11.25g so I'd guess a 10.80g coin would need to look around fine or less? Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I would send it to CGS.If it gets authenticated If it doesn't lessons have been learnt.A fairly inexpensive coin is good to learn on.I have a feeling it will be returned with a made in China label Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=728120&STARTPAGE=1Interesting.Mmmm Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=728120&STARTPAGE=1Interesting.MmmmCripes! The only thing is, though, it's still all speculation! I guess the only thing is to buy one dead on the nail weight-wise, with everything else 'right' of course!Where could you buy a genuine top-class Chinese fake of the godless? (without the obvious! ) Quote
Rob Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think the key to identifying them will be in the legend. The letter quality of the 'Godless' is very good with angular sides to most characters. The 9 on the PCGS site example looks iffy as Stubby indicated. Knowing the weight and die axis look like being important too. If anyone has an example, it would be worth counting the milling too. That includes Palves' friend. Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think the key to identifying them will be in the legend. The letter quality of the 'Godless' is very good with angular sides to most characters. The 9 on the PCGS site example looks iffy as Stubby indicated. Knowing the weight and die axis look like being important too. If anyone has an example, it would be worth counting the milling too. That includes Palves' friend.Will certainly give mine a count tomorrow, could be telling! Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think the key to identifying them will be in the legend. The letter quality of the 'Godless' is very good with angular sides to most characters. The 9 on the PCGS site example looks iffy as Stubby indicated. Knowing the weight and die axis look like being important too. If anyone has an example, it would be worth counting the milling too. That includes Palves' friend.My pair of fake Croc's are better quality than Mrs Peters real ones.Copying 1849 technology won't be difficult.It is big business in Asia.Do you think they can every reproduce our crap early copper(I think us farthing boys are quite safe). The Chinese have concentrated on US coins but we have a few to worry about,Northumberland shillings,gothic florins and 1905 2/6's spring to mind.Get them slabbed if in doubt...no brainer.Or get provenance.Simples I might of mentioned that colleagues bought unbadged Lacoste golf shirts whilst working in Istanbul for £1 each,a badge added in India made them £50 when in the pro shops.There will be a time when the Asian fakes are better than our originals. Quote
Coinery Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Do you think they can every reproduce our crap early copper(I think us farthing boys are quite safe). There will be a time when the Asian fakes are better than our originals.Then everybody will start playing safe and begin buying up all the old farthings and hammered! Prices will rocket but you won't be able to afford to buy any more! Edited July 17, 2012 by Coinery Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Do you think they can every reproduce our crap early copper(I think us farthing boys are quite safe). There will be a time when the Asian fakes are better than our originals.Then everybody will start playing safe and begin buying up all the old farthings and hammered! Prices will rocket but you won't be able to afford to buy any more! Ashmore is an example when hammered coins were reproduced on a massive scale.I have bought a couple.If you can buy original silver (which is plentiful if you run your detector over a few fields) a die can be reproduced and hey presto.A few Viking dies have been found.Learn boys learn.I don't mind contempory forgeries in fact I will buy them.There are a lot of hammered(and milled)gold coins out there.Man up as Mrs Peter says as she thrusts the broom in my hand.I give her a smile and a glass of white and everything is Honkeydory. Quote
Rob Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Do you think they can every reproduce our crap early copper(I think us farthing boys are quite safe). There will be a time when the Asian fakes are better than our originals.Then everybody will start playing safe and begin buying up all the old farthings and hammered! Prices will rocket but you won't be able to afford to buy any more! Ashmore is an example when hammered coins were reproduced on a massive scale.I have bought a couple.If you can buy original silver (which is plentiful if you run your detector over a few fields) a die can be reproduced and hey presto.A few Viking dies have been found.Learn boys learn.I don't mind contempory forgeries in fact I will buy them.There are a lot of hammered(and milled)gold coins out there.Man up as Mrs Peter says as she thrusts the broom in my hand.I give her a smile and a glass of white and everything is Honkeydory.You might need a mop and bucket rather than a broom - it's more practical. Quote
Peter Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Do you think they can every reproduce our crap early copper(I think us farthing boys are quite safe). There will be a time when the Asian fakes are better than our originals.Then everybody will start playing safe and begin buying up all the old farthings and hammered! Prices will rocket but you won't be able to afford to buy any more! Ashmore is an example when hammered coins were reproduced on a massive scale.I have bought a couple.If you can buy original silver (which is plentiful if you run your detector over a few fields) a die can be reproduced and hey presto.A few Viking dies have been found.Learn boys learn.I don't mind contempory forgeries in fact I will buy them.There are a lot of hammered(and milled)gold coins out there.Man up as Mrs Peter says as she thrusts the broom in my hand.I give her a smile and a glass of white and everything is Honkeydory.You might need a mop and bucket rather than a broom - it's more practical. We only need mops and buckets after visits from our Northern friends or we have bought new a new puppy or kitten. Last time my buddies from Knarsborough came the cleaners were called in."Wot no gravey with me chips" and then honked in beautiful Bury St Edmunds market place.In Crete and the USA holidays over a few years after I think we tamed them.I could name an optician and a high standing chap...but I won't. Quote
azda Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Ok, so basically from what i'm seeing from Palves' coin picture, to Robs and then to mine is that the base of the 9 on Palves' picture is thicker than mine and Robs 9 in the pictures.The slope of the 9 gets thinner as it curves round at the bottom, but Palves' picture, the slope of the 9 stays fat at the bottom and there is no bubble like serif at the end of the 9 in Palves' picture, whereas there is in mine and Robs. Just observations, and theoryPalves, is it possible to get a better picture of the 9 in the date? Edited July 17, 2012 by azda Quote
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