Goldberg Auction Madness? Or Jubilee Coins Gone Wild!

[VickySilver]

Goldberg in Beverly Hills have just had an auction, and posted some unfathomable results. www.goldbergcoin.com (I think).

Jubilee 1887 coins:

5 Pounds - 22.4k USD

2 Pounds - 11+ k USD

1 Pound - 11+k USD

DOUBLE FLORIN - 6+k USD!!!!

Crown (by recall) >10k+ USD

6d - 6k USD

I am absolutely astonished. Who on Earth is paying these prices?

[azda]

Idiots with lots of cash obviously. Coming from Beverly hills i'd say both

[Peckris]

Goldberg in Beverly Hills have just had an auction, and posted some unfathomable results. www.goldbergcoin.com (I think).

Jubilee 1887 coins:

5 Pounds - 22.4k USD

2 Pounds - 11+ k USD

1 Pound - 11+k USD

DOUBLE FLORIN - 6+k USD!!!!

Crown (by recall) >10k+ USD

6d - 6k USD

I am absolutely astonished. Who on Earth is paying these prices?

Have you got the link to the relevant page(s? The "prices realised" don't x-ref to the actual lots except a lot number that means nothing without a description. And trying to find the coins themselves in their unfathomable listings ("World Currency" doesn't include British coins it seems ) is an occupation I just don't have any time or energy for. Sigh.

Cancel that - I finally located their Search facility and typed in 1887, and there they were! I do have to say that those are really lovely proofs - I guess a collector with the funds would snap those up - gorgeous coins. Ok, way over book price, but I've never seen such good looking proofs for that date,

Edited June 1, 2012 by Peckris

[Generic Lad]

People with cash to spare have lately been going for their ABCDs (anything Bernanke can't destroy) historically the remedy in high inflation periods like this one is to put cash in real estate... Not so much anymore.

In comparison to US coins, British coins seem undervalued, especially to a US buyer who equates old with valuable. We live in a world where investors are paying the Swiss government to take their money and bond yields are negative! The rush to get rid of excess cash has led a lot of investors to pay silly money for coins. Of course then there are the serious collectors bidding against these investors too.

Whether these high prices will continue remains to be seen though. Is this the beginning of a temporary "bubble" of interest in British coins? Or is this simply the new normal? And what will be of interest next? Will it be a niche of British/European coins such as Maundy sets or celtic coins? Or will it be an entirely new field like modern Chinese commemorative coins? Will the flood of commemoratives from the US Mint, Royal Mint and other mints around the world implode the hobby like it did for stamps? Or will it fuel more collectors?

[Peter]

Interesting thoughts.

Both MR & MRS Peter have frozen their private pensions and chipping away at visible funds...we have both been caught in the trap of not being able to claim state pension for an extra 3 years.

Presently you can take 25% of your pension lump sum tax free...I say (presently) as annuities tumble.

It will be interesting to see how this weekends London Coin auction goes and Spinks at the end of the month....I will be armed with my £50 of spare cash

[Peckris]

Interesting thoughts.

Both MR & MRS Peter have frozen their private pensions and chipping away at visible funds...we have both been caught in the trap of not being able to claim state pension for an extra 3 years.

Presently you can take 25% of your pension lump sum tax free...I say (presently) as annuities tumble.

It will be interesting to see how this weekends London Coin auction goes and Spinks at the end of the month....I will be armed with my £50 of spare cash

Unfortunately you can't take the 25% lump sum and leave the rest invested until annuity rates improve - I checked. So you have to make a choice - will the 25% invested now bring a better return in the short term than leaving the whole lot where it is and waiting for rates to improve? And what if they don't? The whole thing is a dreadful gamble. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't your future income at stake. Maybe coins really ARE the answer.

[azda]

Interesting thoughts.

Both MR & MRS Peter have frozen their private pensions and chipping away at visible funds...we have both been caught in the trap of not being able to claim state pension for an extra 3 years.

Presently you can take 25% of your pension lump sum tax free...I say (presently) as annuities tumble.

It will be interesting to see how this weekends London Coin auction goes and Spinks at the end of the month....I will be armed with my £50 of spare cash

You forgot the other 3 zeros on that £50 sum Peter

[Peter]

Interesting thoughts.

Both MR & MRS Peter have frozen their private pensions and chipping away at visible funds...we have both been caught in the trap of not being able to claim state pension for an extra 3 years.

Presently you can take 25% of your pension lump sum tax free...I say (presently) as annuities tumble.

It will be interesting to see how this weekends London Coin auction goes and Spinks at the end of the month....I will be armed with my £50 of spare cash

You forgot the other 3 zeros on that £50 sum Peter

Yes so true £50.00 & 50p

[VickySilver]

I think all can admit that these were exceptional quality coins, but this seems if the trend holds to be an indicator that some English coins may start to show the trend of grade quality or number over rarity. I imagine there is a better balance but 4,000 poounds for an 1887 proof 6d still seems "off the chain".

I am certainly not the end-all authority on pricing but I would have imagined 1k would have been somewhat remarkable but perhaps more in line with expectations. 15,000 pounds for the 5 sov. puts it rather up in a rarified (like the semi-pun?) strata...

[TomGoodheart]

I imagine the number of certifed proof ultra cameo (whatever the heck that means) coins will be limited, but yeah, I do wonder if someone hasn't gotten a bit carried away there. That's what? $66,000 for the set? Not including commission. And no doubt they will just sit in a bank vault. Certainly I can't see the buyer cracking them out of their slabs (assuming they're slagged) to admire them ..

Not my sort of thing I'm afraid. Plus I question whether the buyer will have any chance of getting their money back for many, many years ..

[Peckris]

I think all can admit that these were exceptional quality coins, but this seems if the trend holds to be an indicator that some English coins may start to show the trend of grade quality or number over rarity. I imagine there is a better balance but 4,000 poounds for an 1887 proof 6d still seems "off the chain".

I am certainly not the end-all authority on pricing but I would have imagined 1k would have been somewhat remarkable but perhaps more in line with expectations. 15,000 pounds for the 5 sov. puts it rather up in a rarified (like the semi-pun?) strata...

That's not new - it's been happening steadily since the 1960s when the rarity:condition ratio was wieghted heavily towards rarities , and it's been one area where we in Britain have been playing 'catch up' with the States. But heaven forfend we ever reach a situation where a "perfect red" 1971 new penny is slabbed, certified and sells at auction for 4 figures.

I imagine the number of certifed proof ultra cameo (whatever the heck that means) coins will be limited, but yeah, I do wonder if someone hasn't gotten a bit carried away there. That's what? $66,000 for the set? Not including commission. And no doubt they will just sit in a bank vault. Certainly I can't see the buyer cracking them out of their slabs (assuming they're slagged) to admire them ..

Not my sort of thing I'm afraid. Plus I question whether the buyer will have any chance of getting their money back for many, many years ..

It's where a combination of frosting and toning causes an almost 100% difference between the raised design & legend, and the fields. Frosting is often white, but there it seems (unless the photos have been 'Shopped) that the raised parts have darkened to look virtually like a negative of the field's colour. If you see an actual cameo e.g. a brooch, it's often white on a dark amber background (I'm not sure what the material is that they are carved from?).

[TomGoodheart]

[ If you see an actual cameo e.g. a brooch, it's often white on a dark amber background (I'm not sure what the material is that they are carved from?).

They are carved from gemstones or seashells that are naturally layered. One layer is cut through to another, so that the design stands out against the (lower) contrasting layer.

This one is carved from sardonyx, a type of onyx.

[Peter]

I imagine the number of certifed proof ultra cameo (whatever the heck that means) coins will be limited, but yeah, I do wonder if someone hasn't gotten a bit carried away there. That's what? $66,000 for the set? Not including commission. And no doubt they will just sit in a bank vault. Certainly I can't see the buyer cracking them out of their slabs (assuming they're slagged) to admire them ..

Not my sort of thing I'm afraid. Plus I question whether the buyer will have any chance of getting their money back for many, many years ..

Richard

If you ever use the word gotten or even the word Mom I will be around your gaff with a 15LB cod to swack you around your chops.It ain't English.Right me old cocker.

[TomGoodheart]

Richard

If you ever use the word gotten or even the word Mom I will be around your gaff with a 15LB cod to swack you around your chops.It ain't English.Right me old cocker.

Not sure what my Mom's gotten to do with it Peter ...

And I'm pretty sure that even a mere 300 years ago cattle were gotten in from the fields and a shilling would have gotten you ale and a wench to, er .. hold your ale while you went to the privy.

You must be younger than I thought.

Edited June 2, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[Peter]

Richard

If you ever use the word gotten or even the word Mom I will be around your gaff with a 15LB cod to swack you around your chops.It ain't English.Right me old cocker.

Not sure what my Mom's gotten to do with it Peter ...

And I'm pretty sure that even a mere 300 years ago cattle were gotten in from the fields and a shilling would have gotten you ale and a wench to, er .. hold your ale while you went to the privy.

You must be younger than I thought.

OK I'm as young as the women I like to feel....canned laughter.

[Peter]

Richard

If you ever use the word gotten or even the word Mom I will be around your gaff with a 15LB cod to swack you around your chops.It ain't English.Right me old cocker.

Not sure what my Mom's gotten to do with it Peter ...

And I'm pretty sure that even a mere 300 years ago cattle were gotten in from the fields and a shilling would have gotten you ale and a wench to, er .. hold your ale while you went to the privy.

You must be younger than I thought.

OK I'm as young as the women I like to feel....canned laughter.

OK Richard...touche

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_gotten_correct_grammar

[Peckris]

[ If you see an actual cameo e.g. a brooch, it's often white on a dark amber background (I'm not sure what the material is that they are carved from?).

They are carved from gemstones or seashells that are naturally layered. One layer is cut through to another, so that the design stands out against the (lower) contrasting layer.

This one is carved from sardonyx, a type of onyx.

Thanks for that Tom.

[1949threepence]

Take a look at some of the prices here

Not sure if this is the auction referred to, as the prices are at variance with those quoted, but they give you some idea. The Americans seem very keen on proofs as well. Possibly much more so than we are.

[azda]

Take a look at some of the prices here

Not sure if this is the auction referred to, as the prices are at variance with those quoted, but they give you some idea. The Americans seem very keen on proofs as well. Possibly much more so than we are.

Yup, thats the same auction Mike

[copper123]

Sounds like some American decided to let his wallet do the talking rather than his mouth.

If only other yanks would follow suit

[Peter]

Sounds like some American decided to let his wallet do the talking rather than his mouth.

If only other yanks would follow suit

We have some good US buddies on the forum

[1887jubilee]

Goldberg in Beverly Hills have just had an auction, and posted some unfathomable results. www.goldbergcoin.com (I think).

Jubilee 1887 coins:

5 Pounds - 22.4k USD

2 Pounds - 11+ k USD

1 Pound - 11+k USD

DOUBLE FLORIN - 6+k USD!!!!

Crown (by recall) >10k+ USD

6d - 6k USD

I am absolutely astonished. Who on Earth is paying these prices?

No prizes for guessing my interest in this topic. Yes the coins were serious money, yes they were exceptional quality but adding the whole set together (I was informed by Goldbergs they were all from the same vendor), the cost of the set was $80,000 (£51,682). That did not stop me bidding on the two coins that were particularly rare. The sixpence is probably less than 20 mintage as is the double florin proof 1+A. (Only one or two seen in the last ten years) I hope to be in print on this soon. The other coins sold purely on quality and I agree the whole US market begins to look like a bubble. If that is the case it could be time for us all to sell.

[azda]

Best get the petrol out first and make sure they're toned and get an even bigger premium

[choolie]

Bubbes run and run, best wait until it gets really big

[TomGoodheart]

You know, £52,000 doesn't sound so bad! After all you'd be hard pressed to get a single petition crown coin for that, so a whole set is a bargain!

I guess the lesson is that for coins of an 'exceptional quality' guide prices quite easily go out the window. Trouble is .. unless you've been very selective in your collecting you'd probably want to upgrade everything else when you see coins like that sitting next to them!

Me? I'm sticking to nVF. Kinder on the pocket, if not on the eye!