Recent aquisitions

[seuk]

Just got this hoard of Chinese HuoQuan coins (of Wang Mang 9-23 AD and probably some time after) and am in the process of cleaning them using lemon juice

[Peter]

Just got this hoard of Chinese HuoQuan coins (of Wang Mang 9-23 AD and probably some time after) and am in the process of cleaning them using lemon juice

Decent washers there.better than some of the worn bun pennies that go for £20k

[Generic Lad]

Just got this hoard of Chinese HuoQuan coins (of Wang Mang 9-23 AD and probably some time after) and am in the process of cleaning them using lemon juice

I don't know much about Chinese history but what was the purchasing power of a single coin? Surely it couldn't have been much since they were brass/bronze but were they an early form of representative money? Where you could cash them in and get X amount of silver or gold? Also, was there a point of the square hole in them or was it just decoration/counterfeit protection?

[Peter]

Just got this hoard of Chinese HuoQuan coins (of Wang Mang 9-23 AD and probably some time after) and am in the process of cleaning them using lemon juice

I don't know much about Chinese history but what was the purchasing power of a single coin? Surely it couldn't have been much since they were brass/bronze but were they an early form of representative money? Where you could cash them in and get X amount of silver or gold? Also, was there a point of the square hole in them or was it just decoration/counterfeit protection?

The hole was there to put on a string.I think.

The only stuff I buy from Asia is..everything (apart from Dr Marten boots and Dyson cleaners)....even our bloody walnuts are from China.

[seuk]

Just got this hoard of Chinese HuoQuan coins (of Wang Mang 9-23 AD and probably some time after) and am in the process of cleaning them using lemon juice

I don't know much about Chinese history but what was the purchasing power of a single coin? Surely it couldn't have been much since they were brass/bronze but were they an early form of representative money? Where you could cash them in and get X amount of silver or gold? Also, was there a point of the square hole in them or was it just decoration/counterfeit protection?

I'm not 100% sure but as far I remember from reading - the coins in general were of low 'metal value' - often used in strings holding a 1000 coins.

Roughly speaking the standard coin in China under the Western Han dynasty (206 BC - AD 9) were the BanLiang coin which were replaced by the WuZhu coin in 118 BC. However that changed under Wang Mang who perhaps were the first to issue fiat money in the form of round coins with value from 1 to 50 and spade coins worth 100 to 1000 plus knife coins of the value 500 and 5000 - The HuoQuan coins is a bit later issued after the failure of that system and it seems that it took the role of the old WuZhu coin as a new standard coin.

Wang Mang were killed in AD 23 and the coinage system were likely in disarray. Later the WuZhu were reintroduced by the new Eastern Han dynasty but to some extent the HuoQuan continued to be minted and there's some very interesting examples of heavy HuoQuan coins weighting up to round 40 gr probably minted in this period, and double coins of even higher weight are also known. In 'my hoard' there's a 20 gr example but most are normal coins round 2-4 gr weight.

Explanations of the square hole.

[Debbie]

That's interestin Peter, thanks for that. I have seen some Chinese coins made from other materials such as mother of pearl and wood - obviously much later - too.

[seuk]

That's interestin Peter, thanks for that. I have seen some Chinese coins made from other materials such as mother of pearl and wood - obviously much later - too.

and some comes with graffiti, chop marks etc...

Two examples - 1st a WuZhu (probably Eastern Han 40-75 AD) marked Liu (six) on reverse. 2nd a small milled cash coin of Emperor De Zong 1906-08 with chop marks on reverse.

[Peter]

That's interestin Peter, thanks for that. I have seen some Chinese coins made from other materials such as mother of pearl and wood - obviously much later - too.

and some comes with graffiti, chop marks etc...

Two examples - 1st a WuZhu (probably Eastern Han 40-75 AD) marked Liu (six) on reverse. 2nd a small milled cash coin of Emperor De Zong 1906-08 with chop marks on reverse.

I like the Viking chop marks and pork chops braised in red wine with a few fresh herbs.

[Peckris]

No pics of my actual coins (my phone's SD card is acting up...) but here are some of the things I've bought with pictures to show what they look like:

Marisa Theresa Thaler, anyone else have one of these? They are restrikes dated 1780 and still minted today. You can buy it for bullion and they're neat coins with raised edge lettering (think of the old crowns) and you can get the level of wear you want. I've got one I got about a year ago in sharp BU (the edge lettering nearly cuts your fingers!) but the one I picked up today is quite a bit more worn, although it is a modern variety produced in quantity from 1853-present.

Yup, I got one of they salted away somewhere. Handsome beast I've always thought (the coin, not the Empress )

[scott]

yea got one myself, for £8 last year.

always wanted one of those.

as for chinese cash coins, i got a fair few, all are real from what i can see (well the fake ones are obvious anyway)including some very early ones

Edited July 18, 2012 by scott

[azda]

The little guys South African Penny arrived

Liking the REV design to

[Peter]

That is very nice.

I'm not a little guy but put a few away for me.

Dave you have a good eye.

[Coinery]

The little guys South African Penny arrived

Liking the REV design to

definitely prefer the little-guys other Elizabeth coin!

[azda]

Not an aquisition as such: A friend of mine threw this up on ebay a few days back, and i was trawling what he was selling and came across this. If it's genuine has a Krause value of $3,200 I phoned him and told him the news, when he came to, he took it off fleabay

[davidrj]

Not an aquisition as such: A friend of mine threw this up on ebay a few days back, and i was trawling what he was selling and came across this. If it's genuine has a Krause value of $3,200 I phoned him and told him the news, when he came to, he took it off fleabay

lots of fakes of these, I have one somewhere, I'll dig a picture out later

David

Edited July 21, 2012 by davidrj

[azda]

Not an aquisition as such: A friend of mine threw this up on ebay a few days back, and i was trawling what he was selling and came across this. If it's genuine has a Krause value of $3,200 I phoned him and told him the news, when he came to, he took it off fleabay

lots of fakes of these, I have one somewhere, I'll dig a picture out later

David

I think it is fake David, that's the reason i asked him to take it off of ebay until he finds out exactly

[seuk]

And a French counterfeit which only cost me about €9 shipping included

[davidrj]

Not an aquisition as such: A friend of mine threw this up on ebay a few days back, and i was trawling what he was selling and came across this. If it's genuine has a Krause value of $3,200 I phoned him and told him the news, when he came to, he took it off fleabay

lots of fakes of these, I have one somewhere, I'll dig a picture out later

David

I think it is fake David, that's the reason i asked him to take it off of ebay until he finds out exactly

Forgot I'd promised to post my fake 5 pesetas - bottom is a real one from my Spanish catalogue

Details are crude, plus initials AS? do not appear on the real one

Don't think are modern Chinese fakes, more likely locally produced "souvenirs" for tourists.

mine came in a job lot several years ago

[scott]

far too much generalising of fakes to be chinese and modern, nothing wrong with an early fake.

[davidrj]

Not a new coin, but an exciting new find

A French 5 centime piece L'An 5 A (1796 Paris) CINQ over CNIQ - to date only 1 known (see footnote to F115.2 Le Franc 10 {2014}) - I've sent a photo to the editors - you never know it might be in next year's catalogue

[Peckris]

Cool! The thin remaining diagonal of the N is presumably the last bit they couldn't quite fill in?

[Rob]

Cool! The thin remaining diagonal of the N is presumably the last bit they couldn't quite fill in?

It's the only bit they needed to fill in.

With die corrections, however well it gets filled there is almost invariably a shadow of the filled digit if in high grade. The filler sometimes falls out too, so you see a 'flaw' where this happened. Sometimes they don't bother filling in the previous digit if it is similar enough to the new one, such as converting a 5 to a 6, or say G1/G2 coppers where the font used enables a 2 to be superimposed on a 1 with minimal evidence. At this point you need a high grade coin to look at the relief to establish if it has been recut.

[davidrj]

At this point you need a high grade coin to look at the relief to establish if it has been recut.

This one is relatively high grade for the type, they and coppers dating back to Louis XV circulated till 1856

These 5 centimes and the decimes constitute an incredibly complex series, with overdates galore plus overstrikes of the Mint letters and overstrikes of engravers marks in multiple combinations - many unknown in better than Fine grade.

This one is very common - F.129/13 An 7/5 Coq/Corne d'abondance

[davidrj]

Another "penny"

Ecuador 1872 2 centavos by Heaton, single year type, mintage unknown but probably less than 500,000, hard to find

Does anyone know if there is a searchable achive for what Messrs Heaton actually produced in the second half of the 19th century?

[davidrj]

and another Latin American

28.9 mm 11.86g cupro-nickel

pattern 1 real or Honduras 1870 - mint unknown but probably either Paris or London who were both experimenting with cupro-nickel as an alternative to bronze at this time (Paris produced the currency 1 real for 1869 & 1870, London starts the cupro-nickel penny series for Jamaica in 1869)

happy with this on at £10, I was searching for an upgrade to my poor copy of the currency type