1862 Penny G over C

[custard1966]

Recently purchased, tried to attach a file but keep getting an error that the type is not allowed (jpg and jpeg)

link here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

[custard1966]

Can't type - should be F39

[Chris Perkins]

Someone else reported a problem uploading images. I'll look into that.

[Rob]

I'm struggling reconciling the shape with that of a C if it's the same C punch used in VICTORIA. It looks more like a slightly clockwise rotated G to me or am I missing something?

[custard1966]

The end of top 'arm' of the underlying letter is clearly different to that of the G, so it can't be a G.

The G has a bigger and more concave serif

[Rob]

The end of top 'arm' of the underlying letter is clearly different to that of the G, so it can't be a G.

The G has a bigger and more concave serif

I can see that, but where there should be a vertical line to the end of the bottom of a C approximately in line with the end of the top serif there isn't and this bit looks more like a rotated G because it has a horizontal top. If it were a reworked die (which given the die flaw, missing or weak serifs to a few letters and less than perfect border teeth in a couple places suggests an old die), there is no reason to assume that the letter punch must have the same precise shape which it would be if done as part of the same punching . It is well documented that you have different shaped Ds on the widow head halfcrowns for example.

[PWA 1967]

I had not seen this thread before and as the picture is not available wondered if it was the vi..G..toria penny everyone seems to be looking for.

The thread is eleven years old and the original poster has not been on here for for a long time.

Maybe you remember Rob ?.

[Rob]

I vaguely recall it was rotated and not the VIGTORIA. It's a long time ago. Last time I met the person posting was at LCA sale no. 4 or 5? ish. Or maybe earlier.

[Guest BayGateWay]

On 30/03/2017 at 3:25 PM, Rob said:

I vaguely recall it was rotated and not the VIGTORIA. It's a long time ago. Last time I met the person posting was at LCA sale no. 4 or 5? ish. Or maybe earlier.

On 27/04/2006 at 6:22 PM, custard1966 said:

Recently purchased, tried to attach a file but keep getting an error that the type is not allowed (jpg and jpeg)

link here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

I think I have one of these VIGTORIA coins from 1862. Pic attached. 

[jelida]

Yes, that is one! And in reasonable condition too! A valuable find; is it for sale??

Jerry

[PWA 1967]

Good find and hat off 

Was only talking about these on Saturday to a mate and the english grading company now slabbed three.

[jelida]

The number of these is increasing steadily, this is at least the sixth, and the variety only became generally known in the last couple of years. But it is a nice variety, and quite easily spotted, so will be in demand and fetch good prices even with many possible future discoveries. I studiously check all 1862's I come across, as I suspect do many others, maybe will get lucky one day.

Jerry

[terrysoldpennies]

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2006 at 7:34 PM, Rob said:

I'm struggling reconciling the shape with that of a C if it's the same C punch used in VICTORIA. It looks more like a slightly clockwise rotated G to me or am I missing something?

Pete, to your knowledge have any 1860  2*+ d  pennies been slabbed , as with more VIGTORIA pennies popping up all the time, I have been surprised not to have seen any more 2*+d's turning up than the existing 5 already known.   Terry

[PWA 1967]

I dont think so Terry (i cant see any ) although its sometimes hard to check as it depends as to what they may describe it as 

Just the 1860 there are over eighty  varieties.

[Guest 1860]

1860 2*+d  and 1862 VIGTORIA are the biggest finds in recent times related to British Bronze. Are there any others that occupy a similar place, if so can someone suggest a good book that lists these new varieties?

[PWA 1967]

The only book is the latest Freeman that has the updates of some recent ones including the two you mention.

The biggest finds are the ones nobody knows about and people perhaps are looking for 

[terrysoldpennies]

2 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

The only book is the latest Freeman that has the updates of some recent ones including the two you mention.

The biggest finds are the ones nobody knows about and people perhaps are looking for 

Thanks Pete .     Terry

[Guest Rob]

Let's say I wanted to sell my 1862 VIGTORIA coin (pic posted 21 Aug 2017). Any thoughts on it's value? The reverse side is a little blemished I should add. Thank you all. 

[jelida]

27 minutes ago, Guest Rob said:

Let's say I wanted to sell my 1862 VIGTORIA coin (pic posted 21 Aug 2017). Any thoughts on it's value? The reverse side is a little blemished I should add. Thank you all. 

I think we would need a pic of the reverse to make a reasoned judgement. I am sure several of us would be interested.

Jerry

[1949threepence]

On 8/21/2017 at 9:56 PM, jelida said:

The number of these is increasing steadily, this is at least the sixth, and the variety only became generally known in the last couple of years. But it is a nice variety, and quite easily spotted, so will be in demand and fetch good prices even with many possible future discoveries. I studiously check all 1862's I come across, as I suspect do many others, maybe will get lucky one day.

Jerry

The beauty of this variety is that it is so easily recognisable to the naked eye. 

I wonder how many are extant, and why it was never spotted before. I'd hazard a guess at <25. 

Like you, I check every 1862 for one of four things, F38, F39A, F41 and VIGTORIA.  

You just never know when one will crop up, as indeed it has for our guest.  

 

 

  

[jelida]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The beauty of this variety is that it is so easily recognisable to the naked eye. 

I wonder how many are extant, and why it was never spotted before. I'd hazard a guess at <25. 

Like you, I check every 1862 for one of four things, F38, F39A, F41 and VIGTORIA.  

You just never know when one will crop up, as indeed it has for our guest.  

 

 

  

And the 2 over 1, and the obverse 3 pairing.

I agree that at the current rate of 2 or 3 publicised discoveries a year,  the total VIGTORIA could well end up in the teens or low 20’s.  I suspect more are found than shown on this forum.

And I am still getting used to the ‘reactions’, seem to keep choosing the wrong one and having to correct the error. Sorry Mike.

Jerry

[PWA 1967]

10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The beauty of this variety is that it is so easily recognisable to the naked eye. 

I wonder how many are extant, and why it was never spotted before. I'd hazard a guess at <25. 

Like you, I check every 1862 for one of four things, F38, F39A, F41 and VIGTORIA.  

You just never know when one will crop up, as indeed it has for our guest.  

 

 

  

This is why the varieties crop up with people looking on the internet and in boxes of low grade coins who maybe never used to bother.

You only have to see a new listing for 1862 penny on ebay and it has a few viewers within minutes on every one.

Unless you are a penny collector not as many would of looked at rang pennies a couple of years ago ,now more people / dealers look out for things and the reason why three 1877 narrow dates have been found just this year and that is just three that i know of.If a coin is scarce there are a lot more low grade ones to check than BU ,so a dealer may have ten nice ones a year  to look at and never bothered with the low grade ones ,the chances of finding a scarce one in ten is pretty slim 

If there are twenty known today there will never be less and the numbers will continue to go up, for as long as people look.I use twenty as an example as below that they may well have been people looking for years and these are proven to be scarce (RARE).

Even ones like 1903 open penny ,1911 Gouby x, two years ago were considered scarce ,i am not saying the buns are going to be found in those numbers but some will continue to be found every year.......even maybe today.

As Jerry mentions there are more found than put on the forum and just wish it was me that could find them 😊

Edited August 11, 2018 by PWA 1967

[1949threepence]

9 hours ago, jelida said:

And the 2 over 1, and the obverse 3 pairing.

I agree that at the current rate of 2 or 3 publicised discoveries a year,  the total VIGTORIA could well end up in the teens or low 20’s.  I suspect more are found than shown on this forum.

And I am still getting used to the ‘reactions’, seem to keep choosing the wrong one and having to correct the error. Sorry Mike.

Jerry

Yes, them too ! 

I'm also getting used to the reactions, Jerry. Easy to pick the wrong one.

[1949threepence]

3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

This is why the varieties crop up with people looking on the internet and in boxes of low grade coins who maybe never used to bother.

You only have to see a new listing for 1862 penny on ebay and it has a few viewers within minutes on every one.

Unless you are a penny collector not as many would of looked at rang pennies a couple of years ago ,now more people / dealers look out for things and the reason why three 1877 narrow dates have been found just this year and that is just three that i know of.If a coin is scarce there are a lot more low grade ones to check than BU ,so a dealer may have ten nice ones a year  to look at and never bothered with the low grade ones ,the chances of finding a scarce one in ten is pretty slim 

If there are twenty known today there will never be less and the numbers will continue to go up, for as long as people look.I use twenty as an example as below that they may well have been people looking for years and these are proven to be scarce (RARE).

Even ones like 1903 open penny ,1911 Gouby x, two years ago were considered scarce ,i am not saying the buns are going to be found in those numbers but some will continue to be found every year.......even maybe today.

As Jerry mentions there are more found than put on the forum and just wish it was me that could find them 😊

Excellent points, Pete. I certainly had no idea that three new narrow date 1877's had been found this year. I know one is for sale at the September LCA - no idea whether it's on Richard's rare penny website or not. Will have to take a look. 

edit: Yes it is. Just recently loaded by the looks. That brings the total known number to 10 on his website. 

Are there any more, or has Richard netted the lot? 

  

Edited August 11, 2018 by 1949threepence

[Peckris 2]

3 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

If there are twenty known today there will never be less and the numbers will continue to go up, for as long as people look.I use twenty as an example as below that they may well have been people looking for years and these are proven to be scarce (RARE).

Even ones like 1903 open penny ,1911 Gouby x, two years ago were considered scarce ,i am not saying the buns are going to be found in those numbers but some will continue to be found every year.......even maybe today.

Still are, surely?