1902 Matte Proof Half Crown /Grading Askew?

[VickySilver]

OK this is from an auction not yet closed and is only the obverse (St. Jas or somebody - lol) . As they like to ask, GTG or guess the grade!  Can’t say I’m in agreement:

 

 

 

I see the usual wipe and even some hints of green near corrosion.

Edited April 15 by VickySilver
Clarity

[Iannich48]

That Is a good question. The portrait would be very decent, apart from the rubbing. The legend though looks pretty shabby. I can only guess that the grade could be as low as au58, but probably advertised as ms63 or similar.

Edited April 15 by Iannich48

[Peckris 2]

I would say “UNC for details” but the wiping and green tone makes it a less than desirable coin.

[Sword]

It's somewhat debatable as to how much "mint wipe" should be penalised, if at all. I don't like it, but would grade it MS61 myself if I am sympathetic with the wiping done at the mint. 

If you were to ignore that (not that I would), then as there are no contact marks, the grade could be anything. It's probably something unexpected like PR64?

Edited April 15 by Sword

[Menger]

I must say - I cheated and looked it up first.  I did not see anything wrong with the grade though.  What am I missing? Should it be a notch higher? 😊

Personally I see mint wipe marks as a positive - they add character. I don’t personally believe that manufacturing marks should reduce the grade.  The green would be a problem if PVC or something but surely not …? 

All that said - I do not care much for technical grades. I am more of a vibe man. 

[VickySilver]

Matte proof 65. There are hints of verdigris/green oxidation in places and the usual wipe as has been stated. IMHO a 63 on a good day only....HOWEVER these at auction go logarithmically higher with each grade. Not sure what it sold for @ St. James...

[Sword]

9 hours ago, Menger said:

Personally I see mint wipe marks as a positive - they add character. I don’t personally believe that manufacturing marks should reduce the grade.  The green would be a problem if PVC or something but surely not …? 

A facial birthmark or scar can be argued to add "character". I would still rather not have them...

[Menger]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

A facial birthmark or scar can be argued to add "character". I would still rather not have them...

I think freckles or the odd beauty spot can be attractive. A scar would be post-mint though surely?  

[Sword]

One can born with scars unfortunately. I remember some salesman once said on TV that inclusions in a diamond are a good thing as they give the stone unique character. Who was he kidding?

Back to the 1902 matte proof. In my view, the minting process was over when the coins have been struck. The wiping wasn't part of the minting process and was mishandling by workers after minting. The fact that many (but not all) 1902 matt proof have wipe marks do help to make them more tolerable to collectors but you won't find many people thinking the marks are a positive feature. If you buy a modern commemorative coin from the Royal Mint today and it comes with a fingerprint, you would immediately return it due to mishandling in the mint.

[Menger]

2 hours ago, Sword said:

One can born with scars unfortunately. I remember some salesman once said on TV that inclusions in a diamond are a good thing as they give the stone unique character. Who was he kidding?

Back to the 1902 matte proof. In my view, the minting process was over when the coins have been struck. The wiping wasn't part of the minting process and was mishandling by workers after minting. The fact that many (but not all) 1902 matt proof have wipe marks do help to make them more tolerable to collectors but you won't find many people thinking the marks are a positive feature. If you buy a modern commemorative coin from the Royal Mint today and it comes with a fingerprint, you would immediately return it due to mishandling in the mint.

Ah. I see. I thought wipe marks on a matte proof were just the same as die polish marks on a normal proof.  So less a beauty spot or freckle and more a soiled nappy. 

[Peckris 2]

On 4/16/2025 at 9:51 AM, Menger said:

I think freckles or the odd beauty spot can be attractive. A scar would be post-mint though surely?  

[Sylvester]

On 4/18/2025 at 9:50 PM, Peckris 2 said:

That's brill!

[Peckris 2]

13 hours ago, Sylvester said:

That's brill!

Wish it was mine!

[ozjohn]

Noticed this one on Ebay. The reverse is pretty good but the obverse seems to show some wear on the top of the ear, side of face, side of head and moustache. Also the toning is not that attractive. Perhaps a weak strike on the obverse but MS 65 seems to be pushing it. Buy now for GBP 745 or best offer again is pushing it.

[ozjohn]

17 hours ago, ozjohn said:

Noticed this one on Ebay. The reverse is pretty good but the obverse seems to show some wear on the top of the ear, side of face, side of head and moustache. Also the toning is not that attractive. Perhaps a weak strike on the obverse but MS 65 seems to be pushing it. Buy now for GBP 745 or best offer again is pushing it.

Sorry I put this one in the wrong place.