1877 Penny (Wider or Wide Date)

[The Bee]

Hi

I wondered if someone could help with a query ?

Earlier this year I started to collect (mainly) GB Bronze and Copper coinage. Its collecting for enjoyment and relaxation rather than to make money or for completionism (collecting can be addictive - only have to look at my newspaper collection for that).

I have basic date runs of :  pennies; half pennies; and farthings (and a few date runs started for silver coinage) 

I tend to buy old coin albums etc which no one else is that interested in

I recently bought an album of circulated very worn 1860's - 1890's pennies (I've seen the term "misty" which I quite like used to describe this kind of wear!) 

One coin in the album puzzled me it is an 1877 penny (very worn) the first three digits 1, 8, and 7 match the "normal" 1877 penny, the last 7 (only the upper part of which can be seen due to wear) is much further to right. I do have other 1877 pennies which are slightly wider but nothing this far off.

I can't find any photographs that are similar I checked London coins etc. My 1985 Michael Freeman Bronze Coinage is too old to help. 

I wondered if anyone could therefore direct to photographs showing 1877 wider date pennies so I can see the differences ? I can always share a photograph if that helps - but it is very worn 

Best Regards

Richard Heaton

 

 

 

 

 

[terrysoldpennies]

If its of any help these are all the different date widths I have come across.

And this one with normal spacing but for the 7s being closer together which is scarce

 

[secret santa]

I have this one:

[secret santa]

5 hours ago, The Bee said:

I can always share a photograph if that helps

Please do.

[The Bee]

That is amazingly helpful - I had no idea there were so many different 1877's.

It is a very worn coin (so please don't laugh when you see the photo) and worn coins can be quite misleading (I have an 1875 where the "5" looks like a small 5 like a half penny - but a look under the microscope and it is just wear) .

For the 1877 you can just see the top of the 2nd "7" and sadly no its lost its teeth  

I've just taken this photo with a iphone but if you wanted more detail (not that there is much !) I can get an image from my microscope 

Great to see what you think 

Very Best Regards

Richard

P.S. I did find a small date 1862 yesterday (again very worn but clearly the smaller size) I may try to go through my other 1877's today (most of which are in much better condition) and probably 1873. I've moved the 1862 into my main tray so it doesn't get lost !

 

[Paddy]

I am not particularly good at telling varieties apart, but by comparison with Terry's selection above I would say @The Bee's is the 13 tooth version.

Whilst on 1877s - many years ago when I was just getting into coins and really only interested in getting each date, I bought an album of decent pennies at a market. Many were very nice indeed and are still part of my collection. Amongst them were two 1877s. I kept the better looking one and sold on the other. The dealer that bought seemed stunned to buy it for only £1 and I have worried ever since that it might have been a narrow date that I missed!

 

[Martinminerva]

I have this one also - 13.5 beads and final 7 over 7:

 

[Martinminerva]

31 minutes ago, The Bee said:

P.S. I did find a small date 1862 yesterday (again very worn but clearly the smaller size)

Please can you post a photo of that one too?

[The Bee]

Hi Here is the 1862

 

[The Bee]

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

I am not particularly good at telling varieties apart, but by comparison with Terry's selection above I would say @The Bee's is the 13 tooth version.

Whilst on 1877s - many years ago when I was just getting into coins and really only interested in getting each date, I bought an album of decent pennies at a market. Many were very nice indeed and are still part of my collection. Amongst them were two 1877s. I kept the better looking one and sold on the other. The dealer that bought seemed stunned to buy it for only £1 and I have worried ever since that it might have been a narrow date that I missed!

Hi Paddy I'm sure you are right. its probably 13 tooth rather than 14 tooth version (may thanks to Terry for the size breakdowns). As a comparison I took as look at my "best" 1877 Penny (fortunately only some of my Penny's are "misty") I think its 12 teeth but I might be wrong (still getting to grips with what to line up when counting !) it is small compared to the "wider". My "best" doesn't have the double 7 which Martin kindly shared but there is something up with 2nd N in Penny - looks like there has been a break of some kind - might need to check under the microscope

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

 

 

[alfnail]

33 minutes ago, The Bee said:

Hi Here is the 1862

 

Yes, def smaller numerals, good find. 

[Martinminerva]

35 minutes ago, alfnail said:

Yes, def smaller numerals, good find. 

Yes - indeed so. Jolly well done.

[The Bee]

4 hours ago, Paddy said:

I am not particularly good at telling varieties apart, but by comparison with Terry's selection above I would say @The Bee's is the 13 tooth version.

Whilst on 1877s - many years ago when I was just getting into coins and really only interested in getting each date, I bought an album of decent pennies at a market. Many were very nice indeed and are still part of my collection. Amongst them were two 1877s. I kept the better looking one and sold on the other. The dealer that bought seemed stunned to buy it for only £1 and I have worried ever since that it might have been a narrow date that I missed!

Thank you again to everyone for your help on this - I have managed to photograph the misty 1877 under another 1877 and it does look like the 13 tooth - so a common version - I'll post that image a bit later

In the meantime hope nobody minds - here is the reverse of my "best condition" 1877 with the odd 2nd N in Penny and a break in the ships ribbon or pennant (not sure what to call it !)

And apologies I also spotted yesterday 1861 Penny (might be common) which is normally reverse side up in the tray, the obverse legend Victoria is missing possibly the bottom of both I's the C and the O; the D in D.G. has gaps at top and bottom, and the D in F.D. has a gap at the bottom. I'm certain I saw the identical problems on a coin in Richard's amazing wordpress Penny listings - but couldn't track it down again ! (should have made a proper note of it) 

Lastly, I know this isn't for everyone, I collect Farthings , I doubt that I have anything rare (virtually everything has come out of old low cost albums) but there there may be something of interest. Obviously a different topic but not sure where to post if of interest

Very Best Regards and thank you once again to Terry for his photographs of the 1877 penny dates, to Richard for his 1877 penny photo and incredible work on Wordpress, to Paddy for pointing out the date type, Martin for the 7 over 7 photo, and for Alf and Martin for the feedback on the "foggy" (don't see how the ship could have seen the lighthouse) 1862 penny

Richard

 

 

 

   

[Paddy]

Thanks for all that.

On the subject of farthings, best just to start a new thread. I too collect farthings and I would enjoy seeing what you have.

 

[secret santa]

Richard

Could you please post a photo of your 1862 F41 obverse so that I can add it to my rare penny site.

[The Bee]

2 hours ago, secret santa said:

Richard

Could you please post a photo of your 1862 F41 obverse so that I can add it to my rare penny site.

Hi I will start a new thread and send it !

[The Bee]

Hi,

To wrap up 1877 I took this photo earlier comparing the "misty" 1877 with I think a 12.5 tooth [?] (which is underneath)  

It most likely a 13 

Very Best Regards

Richard

 

 

 

[Martinminerva]

41 minutes ago, The Bee said:

3 hours ago, secret santa said:

Richard

Could you please post a photo of your 1862 F41 obverse so that I can add it to my rare penny site.

Hi I will start a new thread and send it !

See my comments in that new thread. F41 is the small date 1862 penny.

[The Bee]

55 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

See my comments in that new thread. F41 is the small date 1862 penny.

Apologies Martin, my mistake please see a picture of the obverse - its pretty bad I'm afraid

[secret santa]

1 hour ago, The Bee said:

please see a picture of the obverse

Thanks - now added to the website.