TOY COINS

[DrLarry]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

 

Depends on when they were made. Prior to 1883, aluminium was not commercially available and effectively a precious metal given the cost of extraction and refining. I'd say nickel or tin were more likely in this instance. Tin plating is surely the cheapest method.

I agree I would think Aluminium would have been too expensive I too might go with some alloy of tin and nickel  tin is pretty easy to control melting at such a low temperature the only thing that makes me question tin is it is pretty reactive and will quickly degrade ( which may explain some of the finds which may have dried to the oxide and rubbed off quickly) the lustre is still very strong after 140 years on most.  They were manufactured between 1870 and most in the 1880's 

[copper123]

Well depends how much , tin is fairly unstable but given its cost probably the most likely .

Would explain why most silver coins are now in a poor state .

Pretty sure they have an iron core...

Edited April 10, 2023 by copper123

[blakeyboy]

Tin suffers from 'tin pest'- below about 13˚C the white tin allotrope really wants to be the grey powdery form.

There are videos of this spontaneously happening in a freezer. 

[DrLarry]

17 hours ago, copper123 said:

Well depends how much , tin is fairly unstable but given its cost probably the most likely .

Would explain why most silver coins are now in a poor state .

Pretty sure they have an iron core...

iron yes or zinc or this "white metal" 

[DrLarry]

16 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

Tin suffers from 'tin pest'- below about 13˚C the white tin allotrope really wants to be the grey powdery form.

There are videos of this spontaneously happening in a freezer. 

interesting I always thought it was a humidity related issue  thanks for that 

[DrLarry]

these cardboard coins I found recently appear to be from the game "The Auctioneer " below.  I had missed the reference in the book by Thomas Engelen 

Edited April 12, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

On 4/10/2023 at 10:04 AM, copper123 said:

Does anyone know what the metal  is coating the "Silver" coins that Lauer produced my best bet is aluminium but I dont know if anyone has looked into it - I am pretty sure its not a thin coat of silver .

Rogers book would probably tell me but I don't have a copy....

I heard back from Thomas about the coatings and the references are in the German Toy Coin book by Gunter Achoff 

here is his reply : 

Coatings by Lauer : Lauer produced over a long period of time & varied the coatings meanwhile. You ll find a good guidance in the “Deutsches Kinderspielgeld” with most produced were Uncoated (“Natur”), or coated with tin or nickel, more rarely silver. The “golden” coins are mostly made of brass, if coated with messing. See series 24, 26, 28, 30 and 32 especially.

 

[DrLarry]

if you want a free copy of the book by Thomas Engelen on cardboard coins  register on the link below and search for cardboard coins.  It is fascinating and astonishing sometimes that these paper coins survive and often in such wonderful condition.  It connects through games and educational sets the learners with coinage when coins wee important and essential in lives.  I suppose these days you just give the kids a credit card ( old fashioned) or more realistically a phone and it begins to control the lives from year dot to death.  

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[DrLarry]

Reading through Thomas's book has spurred me on to catalogue the toy coins of card and plastic.  I don't have a lot but pick them up now and again for the fun of it.  Here are a set I cannot find listed in Rogers and because they are part plastic (not the notes and the cheque book deposit book ) they are not in his book.   The must date from at least 1957 as the date written in the cheque book is this date.  They are quite early for plastic used since about 1949 and have educational value.  The half penny, penny, and threepence in copper the sixpence, shilling, florin and half crown in silver 

 

At least two issues are likely an older Green paying in book and cheque book in one and the later Blue version.  I cannot see any clue to the dates other than that mentioned HELP PLEASE 

Edited April 12, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

there is also a complete green paying in book...sixpence for scale MARTINS BANK LIMITED 

[DrLarry]

and the coins for the Martins Bank set 

[DrLarry]

there are about 10 bank notes presumably a ten shilling and 1 pound 

Edited April 12, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

The £1 ?

Edited April 12, 2023 by DrLarry

[copper123]

Take a look at this is it in Rogers?

Clearly in the wrong metal might be a one off but I doubt it as I own two!

[copper123]

By the way heres the difference between a coin with its silver coating and one with none

[DrLarry]

5 hours ago, copper123 said:

Take a look at this is it in Rogers?

Clearly in the wrong metal might be a one off but I doubt it as I own two!

No its a known one I have a few it's one of the Gar lauer imitations .  Ugly sixpence I call them 

[DrLarry]

4 hours ago, copper123 said:

By the way heres the difference between a coin with its silver coating and one with none

Yes its often interesting how the ones with no coating show no sign of having been played with.  I think the coated must just disappear to a powder or as suggested in tin becomes a grey allotrope

[DrLarry]

I think here may be one variation in the portrait of Victoria on the Gothic Florin (but is this just again blockage)  The shoulder  truncation on these two  are as a "vignette" as compared with the very distinct line seen on all others of the 10 I have  

Edited April 13, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

Gothic Florin ...I sadly do not have the rare example #413 a the white plated Brass , mine are all iron #413  there is a third #414 in which the word NURNBERG  replaces COUNTER 

Edited April 13, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

16 hours ago, copper123 said:

Take a look at this is it in Rogers?

Clearly in the wrong metal might be a one off but I doubt it as I own two!

it is #430  section 11 copies of Lauer : L Gar Lauer  attributed posibibly to an unknown english manufacturer (Hawkins 1960) brass  also reported in white plated metal unseen by Rogers #430 a .

 

I note that there is a touch of corrosion on the reverse could you put a magnet to is see it it is brass?  that looks like rust 

Edited April 13, 2023 by DrLarry

[copper123]

3 hours ago, DrLarry said:

it is #430  section 11 copies of Lauer : L Gar Lauer  attributed posibibly to an unknown english manufacturer (Hawkins 1960) brass  also reported in white plated metal unseen by Rogers #430 a .

 

I note that there is a touch of corrosion on the reverse could you put a magnet to is see it it is brass?  that looks like rust 

It's brass

[DrLarry]

8 hours ago, copper123 said:

It's brass

Ok then it is the 430 they are classed as Rare one R   the iron ones are RRR   I have not yet taken a good look at mine to see if there are any variations 

 

One small thing I have noticed with the ones I have is that the alloy is quite reactive and copper begins to build up a little so keep them dry and clean 

Edited April 13, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

it is always useful to post close up pictures if you find anything unusual about these toy coins , more often than not a simple explanation becomes clear .  I think the question I asked about if there were two obverse portraits is more likely simply the result of a slightly deeper strike in the solid line bust and a weaker one in the vignette type .  I noticed latter there is a reduced impression of the border dentils so likely with a slightly harder pressing the result would have been the same. 

[DrLarry]

12 hours ago, DrLarry said:

it is #430  section 11 copies of Lauer : L Gar Lauer  attributed posibibly to an unknown english manufacturer (Hawkins 1960) brass  also reported in white plated metal unseen by Rogers #430 a .

 

I note that there is a touch of corrosion on the reverse could you put a magnet to is see it it is brass?  that looks like rust 

actually we should call this the Mr Burns sixpence from the Simpsons  

 

No point having toy coins if you cannot have a bit of fun 

Edited April 13, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

This "lid" of a box?  was posted recently by Rex Coins and Pat has given me permission to share it with you.  It seems to be pressed tin or possibly copper alloy gilded and it makes me wonder if it may in fact be a Lauer box for the American series.  Or some other issue.  I would be grateful for any thoughts .  And my apologies to anyone that bought it for listing it here I just thought it was an  important object 

 

thanks to REX Coins and to Pat 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by DrLarry