TOY COINS

[kai1998inc]

1 hour ago, DrLarry said:

Oh great that was going to be my retirement project LOL  I have found numerous new examples in both the British and European Lauer type coins.  When I started these pages I left the Lauer coins for a while as they seemed to hold more information than most.  Where are you based? Nice to meet you by the Way 

 

Larry 

Hi Larry, it’s nice to meet you too, I’m based in London/ Essex, how about yourself? I’ve just been back through the 15 pages and there’s lots of information which would be a great help and plenty of additions to the book. 
 

I’m about half way through a die study of the balmberger Victoria coins, and have so far found 21 obverses and at least as many reverses within my own collection. The Edward ones are next on my list to do. 
 

The postcard is fascinating, as I agree, it’s difficult to relate much to Lauer as the factory and all of their records etc was destroyed during WWII. The last coin I have from Lauer I believe was dated around WWII (there is one listed in Rogers book, and I have another denomination from the same series, so I believe that a full set likely exists, albeit rare). 

[DrLarry]

12 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

Hi Larry, it’s nice to meet you too, I’m based in London/ Essex, how about yourself? I’ve just been back through the 15 pages and there’s lots of information which would be a great help and plenty of additions to the book. 
 

I’m about half way through a die study of the balmberger Victoria coins, and have so far found 21 obverses and at least as many reverses within my own collection. The Edward ones are next on my list to do. 
 

The postcard is fascinating, as I agree, it’s difficult to relate much to Lauer as the factory and all of their records etc was destroyed during WWII. The last coin I have from Lauer I believe was dated around WWII (there is one listed in Rogers book, and I have another denomination from the same series, so I believe that a full set likely exists, albeit rare). 

I am happy to hear that you have a lot more on the Balmberger coins I keep finding them and often wonder if they are new or simply covered by the broad explanation Rogers gives at the start of that section.  Well it will be good to compare notes .  Also if I know you are collecting and bidding on coins and they are being used for research I can happily let you take them.  It worries me that the coins might just be used for pure collection ...I am afraid the scientist in me sees collecting as a means to an end to improve our knowledge.

When you come to cardboard coins there is a collector in Derbyshire  David who has specialised in this and is writing a book at the moment I think.  Toys are by definition ephemeral lost and played with and easily forgotten and I think we have a chance of improving things  I am thinking of donating my collection to a toy museum but I shall see when the time comes.  

[DrLarry]

The Younger Heads are believed to be the first issue probably made after the increased automation of the factory in the 1880's steam was added allowing the coins to be produced on a much grander scale expanding the distribution and likely the profit.  some are rarer than others 

#400 13mm Brass with reeded edge these early ones have the word COUNTER in the exergue not uncommon 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

#400 a. Gilt Brass with reeded edge 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

#400.c  had a plain edge again with counter with plain edge RRR  the plain dges are rare in these early gold type coins (Rogers) and I would agree with that 

 

I suppose it would be useful to weigh these coins which might help verify different metal types as it is sometimes hard to know exactly what a description of "coppery Brass " actually means 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

I do not have #401  similar to the above except it has NURNBERG in the exergue 

#402

 

typically the leg of the  is very short within  the date in the exergue 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

In my opinion #403 is the first of the SOVEREIGNS using the shield type it is beautifully engraved in brass with a reeded edge they are RR interestingly the use of the J for Jmitation on the obverse differs from the I in IMITATION on the reverse, in this one the I is overstruck  the same error does not seem to be the case in #404 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

My apologies I think I might have already covered some of the young heads on page 5 when I listed the silver version of the above which I think now might be from the same die linked to #403 b as it has the three radial cracks on the obverse die .  The reverse does however have the I over an I i had not noticed that before .  This little silver one is beautiful 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

I will carry on with the half Sovereign because I have now realised there is an interesting connection between the SCVEREIGN  where the O is broken and reads C 

 

    young head undated 

 jubilee head dated 1887 

and the Mule with the reverse  directly above  with 1887 and the 1897 date on the obverse 

Edited March 2, 2023 by DrLarry

[kai1998inc]

I hope this is allowed here - The New Model Crown by Allen and Moore. This one in almost pure silver (XRF tested at 98% silver).

[kai1998inc]

And the obverse.

[DrLarry]

stunning well done 

2 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

And the obverse.

beautiful 

[DrLarry]

I asked earlier on if anyone was aware of this unusual character a typical Moore Model ! PENNY 1848 but with an obverse mule using one of the medalet portraits form the Windsor box .  There are 4 different portraits I think of Victoria with some help and a push in the right direction  i believe it is be #267 in Rogers RRR* unseen by him 

 #267 Crowned Victoria Model penny  11mm 

Edited March 3, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:34 PM, kai1998inc said:

Hi Larry, it’s nice to meet you too, I’m based in London/ Essex, how about yourself? I’ve just been back through the 15 pages and there’s lots of information which would be a great help and plenty of additions to the book. 
 

I’m about half way through a die study of the balmberger Victoria coins, and have so far found 21 obverses and at least as many reverses within my own collection. The Edward ones are next on my list to do. 
 

The postcard is fascinating, as I agree, it’s difficult to relate much to Lauer as the factory and all of their records etc was destroyed during WWII. The last coin I have from Lauer I believe was dated around WWII (there is one listed in Rogers book, and I have another denomination from the same series, so I believe that a full set likely exists, albeit rare). 

Section 06 needs a lot of revision even with my brief excursion into this section there are several  new obverses and reverses.  But I note that your revision will start at 1860 

[DrLarry]

19 hours ago, DrLarry said:

stunning well done 

beautiful 

we would have some lovely coinage with the model coins if moore had managed to persuade the mint 

[kai1998inc]

44 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I asked earlier on if anyone was aware of this unusual character a typical Moore Model ! PENNY 1848 but with an obverse mule using one of the medalet portraits form the Windsor box .  There are 4 different portraits I think of Victoria with some help and a push in the right direction  i believe it is be #267 in Rogers RRR* unseen by him 

 #267 Crowned Victoria Model penny  11mm 

Those model pennies with the muled obverse are always a nice find. There is also a Moore Quarter Farthing with that obverse. I have attached images of my example.

[kai1998inc]

35 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

we would have some lovely coinage with the model coins if moore had managed to persuade the mint 

I completely agree. He was very talented, and created lovely coins. It's a shame he was never involved in the regal coinage. I wonder if it was perhaps because his bi-metallic pennies and halfpennies were so popular that the mint had to make a statement saying they were not official. Perhaps it annoyed the mint enough to not consider Moore?

[DrLarry]

4 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

I completely agree. He was very talented, and created lovely coins. It's a shame he was never involved in the regal coinage. I wonder if it was perhaps because his bi-metallic pennies and halfpennies were so popular that the mint had to make a statement saying they were not official. Perhaps it annoyed the mint enough to not consider Moore?

yes I read that they circulated well with people for a long time.  It is often the case in smaller communities that non regal coins circulate.  Even within parts of the Cape Flats in Cape Town the townships circulate pink rand cash that has been stolen and dyed with the ink that goes off in the cash canisters ...as long as the money does not leave the townships it remains pretty well safe.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by DrLarry

[DrLarry]

4 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

Those model pennies with the muled obverse are always a nice find. There is also a Moore Quarter Farthing with that obverse. I have attached images of my example.

I saw on the list that a quarter farthing existed #237  I suppose we have to assume (perhaps ) that the half penny exists ?  can we say that? 

[DrLarry]

Continuing Lauer Young heads .  I found one of the SCvereign types in set A  which included all the young Heads from the SOV with the George Dragon to one farthing in uncirculated condition the box also contained the Gothic Head Florin and the George IV crown.  there is no representation of the silver crown with the young victoria head and the Gothic Crown only issued as a proof is also not included .

However I think the jury on distribution is still out because I have often found small bags filled with one currency value is groups of between 30 to 50 Coins .  The Boxes used also vary with the FIVE POUNDS on the lid the rarest one with the two cherubs turning a coin screw being larger and deeper than other Jahnicke's Patent Pending boxes Made Specifically for L C Lauer stamped on the front of the box 

[copper123]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:49 PM, kai1998inc said:

And the obverse.

I did have one of those back in the seventies in my collection for only a few weeks it was in worse than fine grade but I love the design its just wonderful

I ended up selling it to john minshull

[kai1998inc]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:45 PM, DrLarry said:

yes I read that they circulated well with people for a long time.  It is often the case in smaller communities that non regal coins circulate.  Even within parts of the Cape Flats in Cape Town the townships circulate pink rand cash that has been stolen and dyed with the ink that goes off in the cash canisters ...as long as the money does not leave the townships it remains pretty well safe.  

That’s mad to think that even though the locals would know it was clearly marked, it still circulated!

[kai1998inc]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:47 PM, DrLarry said:

I saw on the list that a quarter farthing existed #237  I suppose we have to assume (perhaps ) that the half penny exists ?  can we say that? 

I’m not sure on the halfpenny. I don’t think the die could have been used ‘accidentally’ on the half penny, as the die was penny/quarter farthing size. I’ll have to check my books once I’m home to see if one is recorded, but from memory, I don’t think it exists.

[DrLarry]

4 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

That’s mad to think that even though the locals would know it was clearly marked, it still circulated!

I think when currency reaches a level that everyone has some the best option for many is to have a parallel economy and keep it circulating  

[copper123]

12 hours ago, kai1998inc said:

That’s mad to think that even though the locals would know it was clearly marked, it still circulated!

I would imagine not for its full face value though