copper123 Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 You can see the compleatly different size letters on these two counters one quite small and the other large - really interesting Quote
copper123 Posted January 19, 2023 Posted January 19, 2023 WOW thats one hell of a large collection you have there larry - god knows how much its cost you over the years . Looking forward to York tommorow I usually find my best stuff in the winter as well Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, copper123 said: are these to Hannover tokens? Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, copper123 said: WOW thats one hell of a large collection you have there larry - god knows how much its cost you over the years . Looking forward to York tommorow I usually find my best stuff in the winter as well oh are you a dectorist? Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, copper123 said: You can see the compleatly different size letters on these two counters one quite small and the other large - really interesting I suppose these difference should be explained by the quantities they were minted and reminted in either by one company or by several. I have never really done a lot of research into them. Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, copper123 said: WOW thats one hell of a large collection you have there larry - god knows how much its cost you over the years . Looking forward to York tommorow I usually find my best stuff in the winter as well I have only been collecting them since about 2016 so not too long really , some of the older members on here seem to have been collecting for decades. In terms of the cost I dont think it has cost too much and now that I have spent it it all falls away into the past and I dont feel the "pain" LOL. I keep convincing myself that as I am collecting it to eventually donate it to the charity to sell , I can justify spending on it. The problem is with that it means that I must catalogue it all with photos and notes so that some other poor soul has to sell it after I have dropped dead.....I keep on having near misses way too often in fact LOL . I just love tiny things anything miniature well made ...even the dogs are mutant tiny elongated creatures .....daschunds !!!!! 1 Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 Does anyone else have any D & Co's toy coins? Quote
DrLarry Posted January 20, 2023 Author Posted January 20, 2023 John Cooke and Sons : these are described as advertising pieces . Rogers says the differences are mainly in the composition and the finishing. I have been fortunate last year or sometime during the lost years (covid years) to have found a small haul and this gave me a chance to sift through them carefully and I identified a number of variations in the design which I think gives us the six listed Rogers #'s 495 to 497a under section 17 of the book pages 62 and 63. These new variants I have found differ in the positioning of the legend letters and the size of the letters. There is also a variation in the die alignment as a medal strike and one as a coin strike. It would be interesting to understand the process of manufacture and pressing of these tokens in general and I will have to attempt to find out more information The quality of these John Cooke and sons pieces is very high . If you have any please list them I will take photos over the following days. Quote
copper123 Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 11:32 AM, DrLarry said: John Cooke and Sons : these are described as advertising pieces . Rogers says the differences are mainly in the composition and the finishing. I have been fortunate last year or sometime during the lost years (covid years) to have found a small haul and this gave me a chance to sift through them carefully and I identified a number of variations in the design which I think gives us the six listed Rogers #'s 495 to 497a under section 17 of the book pages 62 and 63. These new variants I have found differ in the positioning of the legend letters and the size of the letters. There is also a variation in the die alignment as a medal strike and one as a coin strike. It would be interesting to understand the process of manufacture and pressing of these tokens in general and I will have to attempt to find out more information The quality of these John Cooke and sons pieces is very high . If you have any please list them I will take photos over the following days. A FEW PICS WOULD BE NICE Quote
copper123 Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 11:03 AM, DrLarry said: Does anyone else have any D & Co's toy coins? ARE THESE DEFINATELY ATTRIBUTED TO MOORE? Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 4 hours ago, copper123 said: ARE THESE DEFINATELY ATTRIBUTED TO MOORE? 5 hours ago, copper123 said: A FEW PICS WOULD BE NICE of course some examples showing the variation in the finish and metal 1 Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, copper123 said: ARE THESE DEFINATELY ATTRIBUTED TO MOORE? Not as far as I am aware Edited January 22, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) One type are set medal and the other coin . I am not 100 % I am sure about what I am about to say but it may be that these were struck with a die method rather than mould pressed in sheets. On the these two the outline of the obverse can be seen on the reverse like a die clash . I assume if these are mold pressed there is no way a clash can have occurred. Would I be correct? Edited January 22, 2023 by DrLarry 1 Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) One variety has a blocked die and the HALF reads as HAIF as we see in the bronze half pennies Edited January 22, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) A third variety seems to have large lettering in the Legend with an older die under the new one the C of COUNTER is repeated in some and the R of COUNTER is doubled . Another where the second E in SOVEREIGN is struck over an R Edited January 22, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
copper123 Posted January 22, 2023 Posted January 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, DrLarry said: Not as far as I am aware Sorry i ment lauer Quote
DrLarry Posted January 22, 2023 Author Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, copper123 said: Sorry i ment lauer I think because of the flaw on the O on SOVEREIGN some suggestion was made that the C made up of a broken O matches a similar one on the Lauer half SCOVEREIGN type ..but I believe off the top of my head the break or blockage is on the opposite side in the Lauer so this might be a red herring. I have some of both types so I will take pictures tomorrow Edited January 22, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 23, 2023 Author Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) In the sample size I have 55 in total about one fifth are large lettering; 7 are small lettering 4 have large letters over small with the Additional R after COUNTER R #496a; 20 are gilt covered Brass 20 plus are silvered; 1 appears to be copper #497a 8 are HAIF's (unlisted) . My notes suggest there may be a variety with a differing number of pearls on the crown but I think this is just damage to the die. There is a large lettering type that has extra hair behind the bun usually the large letters are over the smaller ones. Sorry my brain begins to collapse after looking at them too long LOL . The majority of this mix I found from 40 in a small haul of them. This type shows the additional R after COUNTER and the smaller letters below the recut large letters there is also interestingly additional hair behind the BUN to my knowledge I have never found the original setting for the very small letters covered so perhaps it was a trial die that was reused.??? Edited January 23, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 23, 2023 Author Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Small and large lettering types Edited January 23, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 23, 2023 Author Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) would you like one? I only have them because I happened to find them all bundled together a few years back? sometimes a find small bags full of a particular Lauer type and assume they are either distribution collections as often they are uncirculated or someone has collected them and used them for playing cards ? I assume a bit like George III card counters Edited January 23, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
DrLarry Posted January 24, 2023 Author Posted January 24, 2023 19 hours ago, copper123 said: 55 coins? I aint even got 1 just pm me your address if you do Quote
copper123 Posted January 24, 2023 Posted January 24, 2023 Very kind - I accept your offer - I will of course send you back something of about equal value A pic up from the York coin fair this last weekend - almost certainly a Moore counter issued for use in schools which were starting to take off at this time due to a health interest in education in the 1850's Quote
DrLarry Posted January 24, 2023 Author Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, copper123 said: Very kind - I accept your offer - I will of course send you back something of about equal value A pic up from the York coin fair this last weekend - almost certainly a Moore counter issued for use in schools which were starting to take off at this time due to a health interest in education in the 1850's What value is it? It looks to be in lovely condition .... I have the lower denominations but not the higher ones .....by Onions...Know Your Onions Quote
DrLarry Posted January 24, 2023 Author Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) On 1/23/2023 at 1:56 PM, copper123 said: 55 coins? I aint even got 1 your'e welcome as you say 55 is too many for one man to hold...I just wanted them so I might be able to work out the relative distribution of different types Edited January 24, 2023 by DrLarry Quote
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