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[Peckris 2]

11 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Yea, the 1918H trails a bit, although in my experience in being VERY picky the 1919H struck in good metal, of good colour and excellent strike is harder than any of the others. If not as choosy and going down to the gVF sort of category, then I might agree with the above schema. Again, I seem to have found more than my share of KNs of both dates - they IMHO tend to be much better struck than the "H crew". 

The strike of Mike's 19H is really lovely. The TPGs are willing to technically grade softly struck pieces into the 63-65 range - so they may technically be close to as struck but just too soft and sometimes the metal being of poor colour. I suspect that a 19H if well struck and of the best quality could bring a big price, unfortunately moreso if slabbed high.

Agreed. I do wonder about why this should be so? I'm thinking that Heatons were the preferred subcontractor, having been used since the 1870s, so on one level you'd think they'd get the better selection of dies? But if there was no difference in the quality of obverse die sent to both, then it COULD be that the slight variation in metal used for blanks might be the reason? Every collector is probably aware of the reddish colour that KNs have when worn, compared to the brown/black appearance of H pennies.

[1949threepence]

On 6/14/2022 at 12:27 PM, Peckris 2 said:

Agreed. I do wonder about why this should be so? I'm thinking that Heatons were the preferred subcontractor, having been used since the 1870s, so on one level you'd think they'd get the better selection of dies? But if there was no difference in the quality of obverse die sent to both, then it COULD be that the slight variation in metal used for blanks might be the reason? Every collector is probably aware of the reddish colour that KNs have when worn, compared to the brown/black appearance of H pennies.

Very interesting thoughts. I wonder if the metal used to make the H pennies was harder than the KN metal, and wore out the dies quicker. Bit far fetched I know, but theoretically plausible? 

[blakeyboy]

...or maybe the annealing process was different, so the metal was harder before being struck,

or work hardened differently in the fraction of a millisecond while being struck, thus flowing differently....

[Peckris 2]

17 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Very interesting thoughts. I wonder if the metal used to make the H pennies was harder than the KN metal, and wore out the dies quicker. Bit far fetched I know, but theoretically plausible? 

 

13 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

...or maybe the annealing process was different, so the metal was harder before being struck,

or work hardened differently in the fraction of a millisecond while being struck, thus flowing differently....

 

Either way, the different coloration must indicate even a slight variation in the bronze alloy?

[blakeyboy]

Remember when you used to look at a pile of ED v11 pennies and could pull out the 1909 ones just by the colour?

Were they renowned as a weak strike?

[Peckris 2]

On 6/16/2022 at 10:22 PM, blakeyboy said:

Remember when you used to look at a pile of ED v11 pennies and could pull out the 1909 ones just by the colour?

Were they renowned as a weak strike?

I found some 1908-1910 could have a reddish tinge. Possibly struck on blanks supplied by Kings Norton.

[1949threepence]

Very pleased with this 1845 penny. Quite scarce and underrated. 

A difficult coin to find - in high grade especially. This one is near UNC, albeit with a few minor marks. 

  

[Bruce]

12 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Very pleased with this 1845 penny. Quite scarce and underrated. 

A difficult coin to find - in high grade especially. This one is near UNC, albeit with a few minor marks. 

  

Yes, it's hard to find a nice 1845 penny, which is one of my missing puzzles in young head penny series.  Nice acquisition 👍 

[1949threepence]

7 hours ago, Bruce said:

Yes, it's hard to find a nice 1845 penny, which is one of my missing puzzles in young head penny series.  Nice acquisition 👍 

Thanks Bruce. If I see another one, I'll PM you so you are aware (in case you haven't seen it). 

[Bruce]

4 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Thanks Bruce. If I see another one, I'll PM you so you are aware (in case you haven't seen it). 

Great, thanks in advance for your help 

[Sword]

20 hours ago, Bruce said:

Yes, it's hard to find a nice 1845 penny, which is one of my missing puzzles in young head penny series.  Nice acquisition 👍 

Sounds like your collection is really coming along Bruce. 😀

[Bruce]

4 hours ago, Sword said:

Sounds like your collection is really coming along Bruce. 😀

Missed out a 1849 years ago, n didn't meet one since then.  Also, don't have a deep pocket for 1860, so give up already😓😓.  However, if counting all varieties, OT, PT, etc and quality, I'm still miles away😅.  

 

 

[Sword]

I was under the impression (wrongly it seems) that you have only started serious collecting relatively recently. The number of varieties in the series is so large that there will always be examples to chase. 

[Bruce]

31 minutes ago, Sword said:

I was under the impression (wrongly it seems) that you have only started serious collecting relatively recently. The number of varieties in the series is so large that there will always be examples to chase. 

Yes agree, there are way too many varieties and i think I won't be able to get most varieties at the end, but with something to chase means I am still able to enjoy the hunting 😆.  By the way, I am enjoying learning the knowledge from senior members here.  Applause all for that👍.

[1949threepence]

14 hours ago, Bruce said:

Yes agree, there are way too many varieties and i think I won't be able to get most varieties at the end, but with something to chase means I am still able to enjoy the hunting 😆.  By the way, I am enjoying learning the knowledge from senior members here.  Applause all for that👍.

Not many collectors get every last variety of their specialism, Bruce. Even if they have the money, very often the very rare type they want just doesn't come up for sale. You can literally wait decades in some cases. Or they might lose at auction.  

But of course, the missing pieces remain an aspiration, which is half the fun of coin collecting.  

[Nonmortuus]

I just dipped my toe into Conder tokens for the first time and managed to get this Warwickshire DH36, which is rated as RRR for rarity by DH, off ebay of all places!

[copper123]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:42 PM, 1949threepence said:

Not many collectors get every last variety of their specialism, Bruce. Even if they have the money, very often the very rare type they want just doesn't come up for sale. You can literally wait decades in some cases. Or they might lose at auction.  

But of course, the missing pieces remain an aspiration, which is half the fun of coin collecting.  

Coin collecting everything in the best grades and all varieties remains a hobby for the rich and apart from america where coins have consistantly performed well .

The challenge is making the best of your available recources , well for me at least it is

[1949threepence]

17 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Coin collecting everything in the best grades and all varieties remains a hobby for the rich and apart from america where coins have consistantly performed well .

The challenge is making the best of your available recources , well for me at least it is

100% agreed.

[Bruce]

6 hours ago, copper123 said:

Coin collecting everything in the best grades and all varieties remains a hobby for the rich and apart from america where coins have consistantly performed well .

The challenge is making the best of your available recources , well for me at least it is

Me too....

[Sword]

If it is a choice between collecting high grades and rare varieties, then I would go for high grades.

[copper123]

9 hours ago, Sword said:

If it is a choice between collecting high grades and rare varieties, then I would go for high grades.

while this is your opinion I would say only 60% agree and a hell of a lot will point to 1849 pennies and 1860/59 and say whats the point when the coins don't exist?

[Sword]

I agree with you. But I think it is fair to say that bronze / copper collectors are more into rare varieties than silver collectors. A rare variety penny grading fine can worth many thousands, but the market is not quite the same for a rare variety silver in my view. 

[Peckris 2]

11 hours ago, Sword said:

If it is a choice between collecting high grades and rare varieties, then I would go for high grades.

Agreed ... though as a general, not an absolute, principle. Just to give one example: I'd rather have a 1946 ONE' penny in EF than an UNC 1944.

[1949threepence]

24 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Agreed ... though as a general, not an absolute, principle. Just to give one example: I'd rather have a 1946 ONE' penny in EF than an UNC 1944.

Plus some very rare coins are literally an impossibility (up to known current specimens) to get above fine, let alone high grade. Such as the F90 and F169. 

[Sword]

8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Plus some very rare coins are literally an impossibility (up to known current specimens) to get above fine, let alone high grade. Such as the F90 and F169. 

Indeed. Even a decent VG example of F169 is well over a thousand. But sometimes you see a worn rare silver variety with less than a handful of known examples selling for less than a hundred.