Gothic Florin

[MJ75]

Can I trouble some of you for your thoughts on this Florin please? All opinions welcome. 

Not my picture.

Edited April 19, 2020 by MJ75

[Rob]

The obverse looks to have been lightly polished.

[Iannich48]

I agree Rob. The toning on the reverse is very nice. It would look much better if they had just left the toning on the obverse. Grade ef/gef imo.

[VickySilver]

I will chime in with an "agree" as well. The rim seems to indicate that prior to the cleaning that it may have been very close to uncirculated. I always try to appreciate this characteristic also on many coins & esp. on eBay, etc.

[Peckris 2]

I agree with the above. If the obverse 'cleaning' isn't obvious in hand, it could be a keeper if the price is right.

[MJ75]

Some other pics of the same coin in a different light. 

 

[Peckris 2]

I definitely think it's been lightly cleaned in the past - the obverse fields and portrait neck have that slightly blue/grey colour which is not present between the legend or where the detail is more intricate. You can see the colour change from just below the legend.

However I don't think it's disastrous by any means and is beginning to tone back.

[mrbadexample]

49 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I definitely think it's been lightly cleaned in the past - the obverse fields and portrait neck have that slightly blue/grey colour which is not present between the legend or where the detail is more intricate. You can see the colour change from just below the legend.

I'll be honest, I don't "get" this.  

Isn't this effect just from handling? The coin is spent, and fingers / trouser pockets etc contact the bust and obverse fields but the edge and legend prevent contact with the fields behind. The reverse is a busy design and again largely prevents the fields from being touched. I struggle to see this as being cleaned. 

If I'm wrong, tell me.

[Rob]

In my view the minimal wear to the lions' faces is at odds with the smoothness of the obverse. That's why I said I thought it had been lightly cleaned.

[copper123]

Llightly cleaned but there very few in nicer grade around .

Would be pleased to own it

[mrbadexample]

10 hours ago, Rob said:

In my view the minimal wear to the lions' faces is at odds with the smoothness of the obverse. That's why I said I thought it had been lightly cleaned.

Thanks Rob, I see the inconsistency.

[VickySilver]

Not only that, and the "decider" in my book are the swirling lines covering fields and Vick on the obverse with an unnatural shininess that has since lightly toned over on both the fields and device, especially inside the lettering - this is the type of thing seen with a wipe by a cloth. This is also seen to a lesser extent on the reverse as well.

Shininess or softness to the lions is something to look for but I have seen numerous examples where the lions' snouts have been softly struck - so both are possible, soft strike and/or wear.

In the States, they used to call these coins "sliders", GEF (or AU) coins that had been wiped or lightly cleaned. In all likelihood and despite this a pleasant -appearing coin the TPGs would reject for cleaning.

Edited April 22, 2020 by VickySilver

[JLS]

The thing about coins which have been "buffed" with a cloth rather than abrasively cleaned is that it's very difficult to tell that it's happened once the coin has toned down enough. And almost all coins above a certain age have had such treatment at some point unless they've come out of the ground more recently. 

But the florin in question has really quite obvious hairlines in the obverse field - you have to give a coin more than a gentle rub with a cloth to get that effect. It's still an attractive piece but it's not ever going to be as nice as it was before it was cleaned.

[MJ75]

Thanks for the feedback all. It's very interesting to read your comments. 

The coin arrived with me today along with the 1925 I posted on another thread. In the hand the '52 looked a lot shinier than in any of the photos posted by a surprising amount. Under a 30x loupe the cleaning marks are very apparent. 

So it's currently on its way back via RM special delivery. The dealer immediately refunded me so no issues with the service. I shall keep looking for nice examples....

Just out of interest I'd be interested to know what you guys would value that particular coin at though.  

[Sword]

On 4/22/2020 at 5:34 PM, MJ75 said:

Just out of interest I'd be interested to know what you guys would value that particular coin at though.  

It's much easier to agree on a price for a problem-free coin than to suggest a value for a cleaned one. For me, I just don't want a lightly polished coin in my collection and would rather have a lower grade honest example. A 30% discount off the problem-free price won't tempt me but others might think differently.