Help Identifying and grading 1861 Penny

[hazelman]

I have graded as VF?

Is the reverse E 

[Iannich48]

I would say reverse G. P of penny is closed, 138 teeth. But i could be wrong.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Iannich48

[jelida]

It’s Freeman 33, obv 6 rev G.

Jerry

[secret santa]

And it's virtually identical to the Fine example in Derek Allen's excellent book "The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins".

[hazelman]

3 hours ago, jelida said:

It’s Freeman 33, obv 6 rev G.

Jerry

Thank you Jerry. What is the key identifying feature that makes it a rev g?

 

[hazelman]

27 minutes ago, secret santa said:

And it's virtually identical to the Fine example in Derek Allen's excellent book "The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins".

Thanks guess i need to purchase this book if im going to improve my skills.

[jelida]

2 minutes ago, hazelman said:

Thank you Jerry. What is the key identifying feature that makes it a rev g?

 

For this date, simple identifiers I use;  toothed border, no lcw and a straight exergue line above the date ( D and F slope up on the left) Reverse E only occurs in 1860, and has lcw below the foot. From 1874 a couple more identifiers would be needed.

We are talking Freeman here, not Gouby.

Jerry

[secret santa]

Very identifiable lighthouse, too.

[Peckris 2]

9 hours ago, hazelman said:

I have graded as VF?

Is the reverse E 

 

Sorry if I've burst your bubble, but that's only Fine.

[ozjohn]

After consulting Allen's Grading British Coins I would grade this coin as obverse VF and the reverse gF.

[JLS]

1 hour ago, ozjohn said:

After consulting Allen's Grading British Coins I would grade this coin as obverse VF and the reverse gF.

I really wouldn't grade the obverse VF. The hair detail is there, yes, but a VF coin shouldn't have general areas with loss of detail like the left side of Victoria's neck (no definition on the line), right shoulder, left side of the rim near VIC. 

This coin is a straight Fine. Some bits are better, yes, look at the hair detail on the obverse, but some bits are worse, look at Britannia's shield on the reverse ! 

Here's a true VF/gF 1861 penny (6 + F) for comparison: https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=152&searchlot=2383&searchtype=2, albeit a bit scuffed up. 

[ozjohn]

3 hours ago, JLS said:

I really wouldn't grade the obverse VF. The hair detail is there, yes, but a VF coin shouldn't have general areas with loss of detail like the left side of Victoria's neck (no definition on the line), right shoulder, left side of the rim near VIC. 

This coin is a straight Fine. Some bits are better, yes, look at the hair detail on the obverse, but some bits are worse, look at Britannia's shield on the reverse ! 

Here's a true VF/gF 1861 penny (6 + F) for comparison: https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=152&searchlot=2383&searchtype=2, albeit a bit scuffed up. 

It seems that the wear on these Victorian pennies can be quite uneven. In the example you quote the wear on the head is light and that part of the coin and is closer to EF. However looking at it again at the coin in question the wear of the Queens dress. It's too much for VF although the head probably qualifies for that description. but the notes provided by Allen in Grading British Coins say the pattern on the dress should still be visible but in this example the pattern has worn away. It the light of this I still think it's a tad above F so let's say F=/F.   

Edited February 3, 2020 by ozjohn

[ozjohn]

Sorry F+/F

[secret santa]

I know it's rather subjective but I'd say Fine only -see cover of said book.

[1949threepence]

Definitely no more than fine for me.