1953 Proof Set

[Sleepy]

Can anyone confirm if all of the 1953 proof sets (crown to farthing) had a frosted design or only the VIP sets?

Regards Phill

[VickySilver]

No doubt there will be other opinions, but Phill I can tell you that one thing about the RM: they are not consistent. By that I mean that there seem to be some sets that are well and thoughtfully put together by them as VIP, but others seemingly original that are not as of good a quality.

Then there is each individual coin, wherein factors such as how early on in the life of a die it was struck and if a particular specimen was given just a bit more care by the operators. Also, no doubt coins that may have been intended as VIP may have found their way into "ordinary" sets.

I have talked with my good friend Steve H. many times in the past about such phenomena as RM proofs of silver and copper 20th C. are a focus of mine, and we (if I may speak for him) are of the opinion that it is not always possible to differentiate on individual merit alone if a particular coin is an ordinary proof or a VIP proof particularly if a specimen that may be the former is of early and good strike with plenty of extra field reflectivity, milling crispness and frosted devices; the latter phenomenon is referred to by some as DMPL, or deep mirror proof like.

This may represent a buying opportunity as individual coins come up that are under appreciated as to their quality. A related problem however is that many of the crowns in particular are actually these DMPL coins that are slabbed and sold as VIP, when they may not be. I would caution against paying fancy prices for these.

BTW, I personally do not like the term "VIP", and perhaps it is the liberal in me...

[Sleepy]

Thanks for replying VS. I have recently got hold of a 1953 set and was surprised to find that the obverse portraits appear to be frosted. Both Davies and ESC seem to say that the frosted coins are VIP proofs. I sometimes think my eyes are playing tricks but I have compared them with other proof coins and they do look frosted.

 

[Rob]

This has been discussed elsewhere on this forum. Consensus is that the term VIP was introduced for proofs struck in the years where there were no public sets issued, for the simple reason that with so few sets produced, any distributed had to be for presentation to specific individuals (for which read VIPs).

For the frosted proofs in public year sets, my personal preference would be for them being early strikes. Possibly they were struck to a higher standard for a few people, but I would have thought this unlikely with it being more a case of filling the order for so called VIP sets first before mass production took over. Maybe a different presentation case could differentiate the two, if they were struck in the first place.

[Sleepy]

I shall take and post some photos in a few days, but right now I have a cold and daren't take them out of their coin covers.

[VickySilver]

The grading services will require both obverse and reverse to have excellent frosting of devices.

[secret santa]

The 1953 proof sets that I've seen described as "VIP" are all highly polished and contain the very rare mule (beaded/toothed) penny, so there's definitely something different about their production.

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=1953+VIP&searchtype=1

[Peckris 2]

It's not an absolute question. SOME of the proof sets between 1937 and 1953 have some or all coins with frosting that varies between slight and marked.

As far as 1953 is concerned, then Secret Santa makes the point that they contain the extremely rare mule penny.

[VickySilver]

Do they all contain that penny? And if a, say, shilling is pulled out can it be identified as "VIP"?

As to the second, I believe I can relatively conclusively say "No".

[Sleepy]

Disappointingly I have to report that the penny in my set is beaded both sides☹️

[VickySilver]

Can you post pictures of the crown or penny, even if it be the more common type?

I actually have a 1953 penny in proof ex-Norweb, but sadly is the more common type as well even if especially choice.

Edited November 16, 2019 by VickySilver

[Sleepy]

As promised some pictures of some of the coins. Crown first

[Sleepy]

Now the Shilling, Scottish one.

[Sleepy]

The Penny, I know you guys love a Penny.

[Sleepy]

and finally the whole set

[Peckris 2]

which variety is the farthing?

[secret santa]

[Sleepy]

I have the farthing as a F664 2B cross points between 2 beads and I of farthing points to a tooth.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Sleepy

[Sleepy]

The comparison between mine and Santa's Penny clearly shows the difference between reverses A and B.

[VickySilver]

Yes, thanks Sleepy for posting your pictures. Not VIP.  I have three or four proof 1953s, but even the one that is ex-Norweb (set) is the ordinary one as are the others. Richard has a stellar example there - was that ex-Spink SNC? I just missed one "back in the day".

[craigy]

after looking the cameo 53 sets seem quite numerous, although the bronzes seem a bit harder to find with a true 100% cameo,  

[oldcopper]

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/lot-archive/lot.php?department=Coins&lot_uid=235221

Here is a 1953 VIP set sold by DNW in 2013.

[copper123]

"special striking" might be a better term

[secret santa]

On 11/18/2019 at 12:09 AM, VickySilver said:

Richard has a stellar example there - was that ex-Spink SNC?

Sadly, not mine, just a pic from LCA

[Sleepy]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:34 PM, oldcopper said:

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/lot-archive/lot.php?department=Coins&lot_uid=235221

Here is a 1953 VIP set sold by DNW in 2013.

I notice that set doesn't have a crown and as such is not listed in any of my literature, I suspect it was a very small private run done by the mint. Pity the picture doesn't show the obverse as I cannot see if it has a frosted/cameo design.