Halfpenny ID check

[Zo Arms]

Freeman gave it a rarity of R14. 251-500 existing. Given such a low number, would anyone care to hazard a ball park value please?

[Peckris 2]

19 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

Freeman gave it a rarity of R14. 251-500 existing. Given such a low number, would anyone care to hazard a ball park value please?

I wouldn't, but could I just point out...

1. Freeman's rarity estimates (apart from the very very rare R17 or rarer, or the relatively common) should be taken with a pinch of salt. They're based a lot on a large withdrawal from circulation, but pre-1971, so anything R14-ish is not AS RARE in relation to scarce or common varieties which got melted

2. Values for varieties are extremely dependent on the collector base for them, i.e. popularity.

3. Current status, for which you need to do some research (have any been sold recently?)

[secret santa]

5 hours ago, Bernie said:

Could be 11+L if you like. LOL !

I'm sure it's obverse 11 - see my halfpenny website to get you more confused !

[Zo Arms]

18 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I wouldn't, but could I just point out...

1. Freeman's rarity estimates (apart from the very very rare R17 or rarer, or the relatively common) should be taken with a pinch of salt. They're based a lot on a large withdrawal from circulation, but pre-1971, so anything R14-ish is not AS RARE in relation to scarce or common varieties which got melted

2. Values for varieties are extremely dependent on the collector base for them, i.e. popularity.

3. Current status, for which you need to do some research (have any been sold recently?)

An unfair question really. It's only worth what someone's prepared to pay on the day. London coins only had the one mentioned earlier in the thread, that wasn't one.

It came in a better class eBay lot, so only trying to equate the outlay.

I do believe I've joined the dark side. Half pennies for me.

Thanks Chris.

 

[Mr T]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:17 AM, Zo Arms said:

However....

I have neither the knowledge nor experience to be taken seriously so these are purely amateur observations.

Using Mal Lewendons photos in the thread '1874 half penny' 2015, the only concrete difference that I can spot is the pointing of the second T in Britt.

Obverse 11 shows it pointing smack bang to a tooth. On obverse 12 the tooth is slightly to the left and the upright noticeably takes in some of the adjacent gap.

Transfering this observation to the side by side obverses shown in Freeman, page 89, the difference can be seen with a shift of the eyes.

You might be on to something, though I think obverse 11 and 12 are probably the same more of less - I looked for any appreciable difference that wasn't a comparative and all I could notice was that some coins had the R of BRITT pointing below the serif of the I and some had it in line. Both types could be seen on coins that were supposed to be both 11 and 12.

[Zo Arms]

3 hours ago, Mr T said:

You might be on to something, though I think obverse 11 and 12 are probably the same more of less - I looked for any appreciable difference that wasn't a comparative and all I could notice was that some coins had the R of BRITT pointing below the serif of the I and some had it in line. Both types could be seen on coins that were supposed to be both 11 and 12.

As much as it would be very satisfying to take all the credit, I had a gander at Richard's Half penny site last night, for the first time.

He's of the view that the 2 F322's that he's seen, both bear obverse 11. So my discovery has already been discovered.

[Zo Arms]

Thought I'd found a 6 over 8 here as the die pairing is correct. Unfortunately it was just dirt but look at the die fill I initially missed. F274A 5+E

[terrysoldpennies]

In for a PLNNY in for a pound 

[Peckris 2]

23 hours ago, terrysoldpennies said:

In for a PLNNY in for a pound 

PLNNY the Elder, or Younger?

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

2 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

PLNNY the Elder, or Younger?

I got PLNNY of nothing......

[Zo Arms]

Would anyone have a photo of the 62 over 26 overdate please? I've read Rob's notes at the back of Freeman but it would be helpful to see exactly what I'm looking for.

Thanks in advance.

[Zo Arms]

Could some confirm or deny my suspicions on this one please? Thinking Reverse D due to the lighthouse and the lack of flagpole. Paired with 7.

[Martinminerva]

Yes it is. I was watching that for a while (it's a USA seller), but thought the price had gone too high for it. 1861 7+D is much less rare than 1860 7+D...

Were you the winner??

Well done, if so - good Freeman number ticked off!

Edited September 10, 2021 by Martinminerva

[Zo Arms]

Yes, a US seller. I missed the end of the auction last time it was out and was the only bidder, the other day.

£74 Inc shipping and eBay's VAT.

 

[Mr T]

Looks live a reverse D to me as well - the lighthouse matches.

[Zo Arms]

One thing that I have found frustrating in the search for varieties of half pennies, is the huge amount of information that is available. 

I have 2 editions of Freeman's work, 1970 and the Rotographic edition 2016. A copy of David Groom's Bronze Varieties. Salzman. The Dracott articles are stored on my phone. A free access to Google. And the wealth of knowledge within the forum. I am aware of Peck, Gouby and Mal Lewendon but don't have their work as yet.

All invaluable but not together as one source.

Stumbled across this a short while ago whilst searching the net. 

A Treatise on Varieties of British Fractional Bronze.

Tom Shumann.

Published by Lulu, to order.

Helpfully they advertise at the bottom of this page. Or they do on my phone.

Ordered a copy a few days ago. Is anyone else aware of it or has a copy?

[secret santa]

Please let me know if it's as good as it sounds and I'll get a copy to update my halfpenny site.

[Zo Arms]

It will probably be a week or so before it arrives. They print to order and then the journey from the US.

Will keep you posted but it does sound promising.

[Zo Arms]

Well. The eagerly awaited tome arrived this morning.

I've had a good look through it and put it under the stairs.

At the back.

The spare room needs painting.

Urgently.

 

[Zo Arms]

All I can say, is that I'll stick with Freeman, the Dracott articles and here, thank you. Just a personal opinion.

 

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

2 hours ago, Zo Arms said:

All I can say, is that I'll stick with Freeman, the Dracott articles and here, thank you. Just a personal opinion.

 

I use all the above AND Richards website..

 I think I'll print it out and have a GREAT REFERENCE BOOK!!! It will just need to be updated periodically...

[Zo Arms]

Agreed.

An excellent website. Extremely informative with useful accompanying photos. Very easy to follow.

[secret santa]

Thanks, although I have neglected it through the summer. If anyone has additions/corrections etc I shall have plenty of time in the winter to update it.

[Mr T]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:17 AM, Zo Arms said:

One thing that I have found frustrating in the search for varieties of half pennies, is the huge amount of information that is available. 

I have 2 editions of Freeman's work, 1970 and the Rotographic edition 2016. A copy of David Groom's Bronze Varieties. Salzman. The Dracott articles are stored on my phone. A free access to Google. And the wealth of knowledge within the forum. I am aware of Peck, Gouby and Mal Lewendon but don't have their work as yet.

All invaluable but not together as one source.

Stumbled across this a short while ago whilst searching the net. 

A Treatise on Varieties of British Fractional Bronze.

Tom Schumann.

Published by Lulu, to order.

Helpfully they advertise at the bottom of this page. Or they do on my phone.

Ordered a copy a few days ago. Is anyone else aware of it or has a copy?

I wrote that book so my opinion will be biased but I was also frustrated by the number of references I needed on hand, especially for halfpenny varieties. If you go to https://www.commonwealthcoins.net/book/british-fractional-bronze there's a link to a .pdf of the farthing section only if you want to get an idea of what it's like.

Major differences to Freeman are that I consider Victoria obverses 11 and 12 the same (I looked at many photos and it looked like both obverses exhibited similar features, not to mention that some published diagnostics are contradictory) and the George VI varieties get some proper coverage.

Any feedback, please send it my way.

[Zo Arms]

Would anyone care to speculate what has happened to this coin? Appears to be some extra hatching to the base of the shield and some misaligned teeth on the rim.

Same coin obverse. An additional A to the bridge of the nose and a spare colon dot after Victoria.

Shattered die hits?