1860 Jb (V over inverted A)

[secret santa]

I have spoken to Michael Gouby re this coin and he is 100% sure that it is an inverted A.

He says :

"The centre "A" bar is clear and solid.

A tiny bit of the 'foot' of the inverted A can be seen just above the left leg of the 'V'.

The 'I' of VIC has also been double struck.

I am lucky enough to have taken an enhanced scan of the whole of the word VICTORIA.

Richard, if you want to post this picture or my comments on the Pre Decimal website – feel free to do so.

I am sorry that I don't seem to have time be active on the forum but I am always willing to help with any question that I can answer.

Here is Michael's photo:

[alfnail]

Thanks Richard, it would be surprising if no other examples of this type have been found since Michaels book was published 

[absence of uniformity]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:45 PM, alfnail said:

Thanks Richard, it would be surprising if no other examples of this type have been found since Michaels book was published 

!!

[secret santa]

39 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

!!

??

[absence of uniformity]

8 minutes ago, secret santa said:

??

its what I found on saturday: BP1860Jb (Gouby D+d; Freeman 2+D) – V over inverted A in VICTORIA

Edited Wednesday at 12:48 PM by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

"The centre "A" bar is clear and solid. The coin I have clearly shows this. Nice to find one that has a MG number associated and from what I can see no other examples are known. When I look at the earlier prices for the F90 you can clearly see the early sales are higher value for worse condition coins. And as they have been discovered the prices drop off. Does this apply to this type?

Same location, same size, clear and solid, and same die pairing. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:24 PM by absence of uniformity

[jelida]

Now you’ve got it, how about a photo?

[secret santa]

3 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

Does this apply to this type?

You can't really compare this with the 1877 F90 which is one of the truly most sought after rarities in the bronze penny range, instantly recognisable and a true "variety", whereas the BP1860Jb is more of a "novelty" variety without being disrespectful to it. I suspect that not many people look for it, but it is interesting and congratulations for finding another example.

[absence of uniformity]

34 minutes ago, secret santa said:

You can't really compare this with the 1877 F90 which is one of the truly most sought after rarities in the bronze penny range, instantly recognisable and a true "variety", whereas the BP1860Jb is more of a "novelty" variety without being disrespectful to it. I suspect that not many people look for it, but it is interesting and congratulations for finding another example.

The BP1860Jb you have listed on the website as you know sold for 3k. Which is a fair chunk of money, I get what you are saying.

I was just using the F90 as example of early on when there is not many availible examples of a certain type they appear to do better at auction, thats the point I was making.

Is there a collector out there ready to buy a  BP1860Jb probably. Who knows what any given person may find interesting or how they value different types?

I'm a complete beginner since three months hence all my questions and also mistakes. What is good for this type is Michael Gouby has acknowledged, confirmed and written about it. As I'm learning that in itself will increase interest for sure. 

Until now there was not another example availible which means no supply and in turn no demand. On its own maybe it's not so important but as part of a collection personaly I think it adds value.

 

 

 

[Peckris 2]

7 hours ago, absence of uniformity said:

"The centre "A" bar is clear and solid. The coin I have clearly shows this. Nice to find one that has a MG number associated and from what I can see no other examples are known. When I look at the earlier prices for the F90 you can clearly see the early sales are higher value for worse condition coins. And as they have been discovered the prices drop off. Does this apply to this type?

Same location, same size, clear and solid, and same die pairing. 

Yes, picture please 

[absence of uniformity]

So I received the coin, I regret to say its not what I thought.

Here is the sellers image; It really did look there is a crossbar in the V. When in hand there is nothing but a faint partial anomaly line when viewed from certain angles.

All is not lost though because it turns out the coins is a different type......... Which is unquestionable and rare. Quite lucky really I am. See if you can spot the type when I upload my images, pretty clear however in the sellers images as you will see the actual type is hidden quite well.

I mistaked the coin for the same die pairing as the 1860 Jb (V over inverted A) I have alot to learn.

Given the V over inverted A is a "novelty" type maybe the one I have found is a better find. Images to follow.

Edited 3 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[absence of uniformity]

Here are the listing images, Almost impossible to see from these images, but can you spot the variety? The coin is not actually missing the top left section of rim, the software when removing the background did this.

[Coys55]

15 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

So I received the coin, I regret to say its not what I thought.

Here is the sellers image; It really did look there is a crossbar in the V. When in hand there is nothing but a faint partial anomaly line when viewed from certain angles.

All is not lost though because it turns out the coins is a different type......... Which is unquestionable and rare. Quite lucky really I am. See if you can spot the type when I upload my images, pretty clear however in the sellers images as you will see the actual type was completely hidden.

I mistaked the coin for the same die pairing as the 1860 Jb (V over inverted A) I have alot to learn.

Given the V over inverted A is a "novelty" type maybe the one I have found is a better find. Images to follow.

Thanks for posting the image. I agree that there’s nothing there, but see where you thought it a was. 

[absence of uniformity]

1 minute ago, Coys55 said:

Thanks for posting the image. I agree that there’s nothing there, but see where you thought it a was. 

Can you spot what the coin actually is?

[absence of uniformity]

If I didn't mistake the V as having a crossbar I wouldnt of purchased the coin and in turn wouldnt have the variety I now do. Very lucky on this one.

[Coys55]

3 minutes ago, absence of uniformity said:

Can you spot what the coin actually is?

I’m afraid not, but I’m really not an expert on these penny varieties. I am interested though and will go through my own old collection of bun head pennies at some time just in case. 

[absence of uniformity]

2 minutes ago, Coys55 said:

I’m afraid not, but I’m really not an expert on these penny varieties. I am interested though and will go through my own old collection of bun head pennies at some time just in case. 

It's really not obvious from those poor images but is clearly visible. I will wait before uploading my images to see if anyone can spot the type.

[absence of uniformity]

And yet another mistake its not a variety it is a die pairing.

Edited 3 hours ago by absence of uniformity

[Martinminerva]

1 hour ago, absence of uniformity said:

I will wait before uploading my images to see if anyone can spot the type.

Looks like it might well be LCW below foot. If so, well done, and what a stroke of luck (again) for you, especially as you thought it was something else completely - these are seldom seen, especially and ironically in lower grades. Took me years to find one!!  Do you do the lottery?? 😄

[absence of uniformity]

1 minute ago, Martinminerva said:

Looks like it might well be LCW below foot. If so, well done, and what a stroke of luck (again) for you, especially as you thought it was something else completely - these are seldom seen, especially and ironically in lower grades. Took me years to find one!!  Do you do the lottery?? 😄