Will we ever become a cashless society?

[Peckris 2 2,044]

3 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Not exactly anarchy at that early stage, but you need an alternative to electronic payments in case they break down. Notes and coins are infallible. 

"Excuse me, sir, did you print this yourself by any chance? I think you'd better come down the station to help us with our enquiries..."

[1949threepence 3,366]

6 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

"Excuse me, sir, did you print this yourself by any chance? I think you'd better come down the station to help us with our enquiries..."

Realistically that only happens in George Floyd territory, where, rather than such polite and discreet questioning, he had some psychotic raving nutjob of a cop screaming obscenities and pointing a gun in his face, based on the assertion of a junior sales assistant, and he subsequently lost his life based on that - murdered.

Of course, anybody with half a brain would first establish that the note was a fake, and even if it was, then entertain the strong probability that it was previously passed on in good faith to whoever subsequently decided to spend it, also in good faith (just as we did for many years with the numerous fake £1 coins) - as opposed to assuming that he's got a printing press in his back room. Not forgetting the actual hard evidence that the specific note in question was passed as payment by George, and not by another customer.  

I'd venture to say that in Rhodes at the moment, checking the actual validity of notes passed, will not be high on their list of priorities.

[Rob 3,002]

At today's Huddersfield fair, I had a conversation with the guy next to me on this very topic. He made the very valid point that every time you pay for a £50 purchase with cash, the recipient has £50 to spend on something else. If he uses that cash in the same manner, the next recipient will also have £50 spend. But if you use electronic payments the bank takes 2 or 3%. So a £50 transaction at 3% leaves the recipient with only £48.50 to spend. When he spends that sum electronically on a subsequent purchase, the recipient only has £47.04 to spend. That reduces to £45.63 for the next one etc. Within 8 transactions, the banking system has extracted 20% of the original value. If the transaction is funded to £50 every time, it would take over 20% by the fourth transaction. If cash was used, the full £50 would be available ad infinitum to all except the banking system. The banks might not like cash, but there is no need to involve them if cash is used in person to person transactions, or at least within the local area. Purchasing power for the masses is actually enhanced by not using cards (debit or credit), because there is no mechanism to skim off the fees. Yes there is a case for having banks for remote transactions, but not for putting every transaction through their system when cash would be more cost effective. Whilst there is always a security risk in carrying large amounts of cash, the benefits of using it are not insignificant.

The modern view of things only costing a fiver for some fee that is avoidable with a bit of thought and planning is part of the wealth problem. Book a hotel through a booking site and you pay £5 more than you would if you call up the hotel and book it yourself. It's not rocket science. Rhetorical question, but why do people buy things off ebay from me with at least a 15% surcharge to the cost of the item on the website when they have been pointed in the direction of the latter previously? Sure it involves electronic transfer that has a cost to the vendor, but they are also saying please fleece me as the buyer for 15% more. People really do not think.

The solution is in all our hands. 

[copper123 1,352]

Even the oldest people are now paying for lots of small purchaces on contactless admittedly its really popular but few places are refusing cash as well I am pretty sure it will take another five years or so for major refusals of cash to become the norm

[Sword 1,330]

I visited a noodle house recently and they were cash only. Haven't had that experience for as long as I can remember. I am old fashioned and always carry some notes with me and so it wasn't a problem. 

It's unlikely that we will become completely cashless during our lifetimes. But I do think there are financial benefits to larger shops and supermarkets when people pay contactless. You need just one staff to look after a dozen self-checkouts (which are much more reliable with cards). People pay much faster and so queues are shorter.  They don't need to count money at the end of the day and take cash to banks etc. True, banks do charge a fee and are making a lot of money that way. However, they can find other ways to keep up their profit margins if necessary like giving lower interest rates for savings, account fees etc. 

For departmental stores, the fees are priced in already and you don't get a discount if you pay cash. So people pay by the most convenient way. I reckon I now pay for more than 80% of the things I buy online as I have supermarket deliveries. Even if I buy a piece of electric in a shop (if I don't want to wait for delivery), paying by credit card gives extra protection, extended warranty, etc.

Evolution will happen naturally in its own timescale and cash will hopefully still be around for a long time. According to the Bank of England, there is over £70 billion in notes in circulation. They are claiming that it is only relatively recently (2017) that "debit cards overtook cash as the most frequently used payment method in the UK." I think that includes credit cards as well. (Most frequently used payment method is also not the same as the actual amount spent).

But buying on Ebay or Amazon when the seller is selling cheaper on their own site is a bit silly. It's a bit like paying an extra 3% commission to placing an absentee bid with a platform when you can do that directly without fee directly with the auctioneer. 

[1949threepence 3,366]

Cash is actually increasing in popularity again. Hence there was a fuss at a supermarket recently where only one out of 4 ATM's was working. Customers were queuing.

I think millions are realising what a huge loss it would be if cash disappeared. Not to mention many young people and those hard up, much prefer cash, as they can't overspend.

Also - and I fall into this category - they resent being told what to do. 

In the wake of the Nigel Farage debacle, it would seem that a large number of concerns are being de-banked because they deal in cash. Not sure whether they just get told "commercial reasons", or whether they are simply informed up front that from such and such a date, they can no longer pay their takings in cash, and must change in advance to keep their account.    

Edited August 14, 2023 by 1949threepence

[Kipster 157]

Did you see Piers Corbyn and his recent stunt in a cashless Aldi where he insisted on paying for a punnet of strawberries with cash and they refused to sell them to him? The man is a weapons grade loon, but to be fair, I can see his point to some extent, even though I would have probably popped into Sainsburys instead.

The whole issue of paying with cash will become obsolete with the generations that follow us, in the same way that music tapes, betamax videos and polaroid cameras did. I was behind a bloke in B & Q the other day and saw him pay for his stuff with his watch. I couldn't believe it, but it'll be second nature to kids that are weened on ipads and mobile apps. Cash money will die eventually with the generations that used.

[copper123 1,352]

22 minutes ago, Kipster said:

Did you see Piers Corbyn and his recent stunt in a cashless Aldi where he insisted on paying for a punnet of strawberries with cash and they refused to sell them to him? The man is a weapons grade loon, but to be fair, I can see his point to some extent, even though I would have probably popped into Sainsburys instead.

The whole issue of paying with cash will become obsolete with the generations that follow us, in the same way that music tapes, betamax videos and polaroid cameras did. I was behind a bloke in B & Q the other day and saw him pay for his stuff with his watch. I couldn't believe it, but it'll be second nature to kids that are weened on ipads and mobile apps. Cash money will die eventually with the generations that used.

I bit like horses losing their jobs when something better turned up

[Peckris 2 2,044]

2 hours ago, copper123 said:

I bit like horses losing their jobs when something better turned up

Are you kidding? I had a Triumph Herald that was 80 horse power. That's 80 horses given a new job for just one car!

[Rob 3,002]

Hooray! Good news here. Just having a few days in Norfolk and the hotel says in its welcome pack that payment in cash is welcome and preferred - to avoid paying card fees. (Paying in cash has a lower charge and provides support for retaining the only local bank). They also recommend future bookings be made by direct contact or via their website to save having to pay the £7 a night booking site fee. I might come back for a few days fishing if all goes well.

[Sword 1,330]

13 hours ago, Kipster said:

The whole issue of paying with cash will become obsolete with the generations that follow us, in the same way that music tapes, betamax videos and polaroid cameras did. I was behind a bloke in B & Q the other day and saw him pay for his stuff with his watch. I couldn't believe it, but it'll be second nature to kids that are weened on ipads and mobile apps. Cash money will die eventually with the generations that used.

Quite. Technology is almost second nature to the young. I have thought about putting cards on my phone so that I don't need to worry about carrying a wallet when exercising but just don't feel comfortable enough to do that in the end. A relative has suggested that I get a smart watch which can do a great number of things like paying and health management but I don't want trade my (vintage look) classic watch (which I am proud of) for a bit of plastic. 

I imagine that cash transactions might not last beyond two more generations. 

[1949threepence 3,366]

6 hours ago, Sword said:

Quite. Technology is almost second nature to the young. I have thought about putting cards on my phone so that I don't need to worry about carrying a wallet when exercising but just don't feel comfortable enough to do that in the end. A relative has suggested that I get a smart watch which can do a great number of things like paying and health management but I don't want trade my (vintage look) classic watch (which I am proud of) for a bit of plastic. 

I imagine that cash transactions might not last beyond two more generations. 

The more purchases that are made online, the less cash will be used.

But if there is s High Street revival, then there will be a commensurate revival in the use of cash.

Oh and don't forget that in some other countries cash is used more than here, and is protected in law. 

[Sword 1,330]

On a different note, I hope that independent retailers will grow in any High Street revival. The give so much more character and soul to a town. I was sad to see Hanningtons, a very large independent departmental store in my home town of Brighton closed in 2001 after nearly 200 years of trading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanningtons. Boswells of Oxford (first traded in 1738) sadly closed during the COVID pandemic. 

 

[copper123 1,352]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:22 PM, Peckris 2 said:

Are you kidding? I had a Triumph Herald that was 80 horse power. That's 80 horses given a new job for just one car!

80 horses would produce one great big pile of poo hope you don't leave it for other mororists to move tut tut

[Kipster 157]

3 minutes ago, copper123 said:

80 horses would produce one great big pile of poo hope you don't leave it for other mororists to move tut tut

Then you'd have another load of sausages complaining about it and setting up a group called Just Stop Poop.

[Kipster 157]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

On a different note, I hope that independent retailers will grow in any High Street revival. The give so much more character and soul to a town. I was sad to see Hanningtons, a very large independent departmental store in my home town of Brighton closed in 2001 after nearly 200 years of trading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanningtons. Boswells of Oxford (first traded in 1738) sadly closed during the COVID pandemic. 

 

I hate to see independent high street bastions disappear. It's like the very history of the town is being slowly erased. But then we can't close Pandora's box, the internet is a gift and a curse at the same time.

St Albans is just bookies, coffee shops and pubs now. Very few independents remain, and the exorbitant rent that they get charged for space drives them into the ground. I remember someone I knew had a franchise of a big name product, and the rent for their very small space was about £70k per year about 20 years ago. That's an awful lot of jeans to sell.

It's all succinctly wrapped up in a great episode of Ever Decreasing Circles, where a local DIY shop that's been in the family for something like 150 years is facing closure due to competition. Martin goes into the shop to buy *one* six inch nail and the old fella running the shop happily sells him one for about 3p. I remember doing  the same with my Grandad 40 odd years ago. The episode is full of pathos. Series 4, episode 2 if you're interested. It's worth a watch.

[copper123 1,352]

Many high streets have had their beating hearts ripped out mainly due to covid I am afraid its done the big chains a masive favour and ruined many small cafes et

Its even worse in the bigger places like leeds and manchester  starbucks and pretts gallore and don't even mention greggs

[Paddy 1,543]

1 minute ago, copper123 said:

Many high streets have had their beating hearts ripped out mainly due to covid I am afraid its done the big chains a masive favour and ruined many small cafes et

Its even worse in the bigger places like leeds and manchester  starbucks and pretts gallore and don't even mention greggs

Greggs particularly annoys me - they seem the darling of the London social elite, but I won't use them after they tried to tell me that a pasty filled with minced mush was "traditional"!

[Rob 3,002]

6 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Many high streets have had their beating hearts ripped out mainly due to covid I am afraid its done the big chains a masive favour and ruined many small cafes et

Its even worse in the bigger places like leeds and manchester  starbucks and pretts gallore and don't even mention greggs

I don't - they stopped selling bread a few years ago, and bread is the primary reason I walk to the shops every few days, with additional items purchased subject to the limit imposed by the backpack size.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Rob

[Sword 1,330]

A good thing that Covid has done for me was to to stop me from eating breakfast and dinner out so often. I have saved a fortune eating at home now and have managed to lose a significant amount of weight.

[copper123 1,352]

I must admit I really love greggs white coffee  it really is superb and the price is fantastic as well.

Its a weekness of mine

[Kipster 157]

A quick read from today's Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/08/18/phone-payments-wallets-coins-money-cards/

[Diaconis 696]

2 minutes ago, Kipster said:

A quick read from today's Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/08/18/phone-payments-wallets-coins-money-cards/

😂 to read the article i am requested to pay electronically… the irony.

[Kipster 157]

15 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

😂 to read the article i am requested to pay electronically… the irony.

Really? There should be no paywall on that. Works all ok for me.

[Sword 1,330]

I think they will ask you to subscribe if you have read a free article previously.