Unusual? 1862 Penny -- Is this really a reverse G?

[Generic Lad]

Hey all, so let me start out by saying I'm by no means a bun head penny expert or that bronze coinage is even really in my interests, however I found this on eBay tonight and ended up winning the auction ($12 US, probably overpaid but...). According to my copy of Freeman and from what I can tell online, the only reverse known for the 1862 penny is Freeman G (probably has a different reference for other references) it looks like one of the key die indicators of reverse G is that the sea extends beyond the circle all the way to the border... However, I'm not seeing this in my coin? Since I just won this auction I don't have this in hand this is the best pictures I've been able to get. The pictures don't seem to want to be uploaded here in full so I've made an album on IMGUR here: https://imgur.com/a/UcBshRd

 

Any ideas here?

[jelida]

I’m afraid this is a modern Chinese replica, there are increasing numbers of various dates appearing on EBay, not all correctly described despite the fact they have only been around a couple of years and the vendors must in most cases know their origin.

Jerry

[Paddy]

Yes sadly very much a fake - the look and feel is all wrong even before you start looking at the detail. Do you have a link to the original listing on Ebay? Just so we can identify yet another fraudulent seller.

I suggest you go for your money back, unless it was ridiculously cheap and so one could say you should have realised it was a copy...

 

[Michael-Roo]

 

 If the seller made no reference to it being a modern copy cancel the transaction or have your money refunded through ebay.

[Generic Lad]

Well -- that'd be why I couldn't find it in references

 

Here's the seller in question: https://www.ebay.com/sch/hunt51/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

 

Since I bought the item it looks like he's listed some others -- many are obviously repros

 

Seems weird though that they'd bother faking a common date 1d! But I suppose that explains why I couldn't find a reference to it -- I'll probably keep it and will post the weight and other specs of it and keep it as a reminder that because its not in the standard references -- it might just mean its a fake its already shipped so probably not worth it to bother returning it anyways

 

 

[Rob]

1 hour ago, Generic Lad said:

Well -- that'd be why I couldn't find it in references

 

Here's the seller in question: https://www.ebay.com/sch/hunt51/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

 

Since I bought the item it looks like he's listed some others -- many are obviously repros

 

Seems weird though that they'd bother faking a common date 1d! But I suppose that explains why I couldn't find a reference to it -- I'll probably keep it and will post the weight and other specs of it and keep it as a reminder that because its not in the standard references -- it might just mean its a fake its already shipped so probably not worth it to bother returning it anyways

 

 

For the Chinese. Material cost 5c, selling price a few dollars. You don't have to sell too many to recoup the setting up costs. 

For the dodgy dealer. Cost a few dollars, selling price tens of dollars. Seems like a good plan as long as you don't burden yourself with a moral compass.

For many ebay buyers, an outlay of a few tens of dollars will easily be offset by the hundreds of dollars accruing from the sales of said rare items - all old coins are incredibly rare and are valuable. After all, they were missed by Gouby, Peck and Freeman

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Rob

[Michael-Roo]

 

It would appear the seller knows exactly what he has and what he's doing. That 1694 elephant cent for example, if genuine would carry a price tag in the thousands. 

Amazing how many elderly people die leaving a collection of rarities, all of which were minted last Tuesday.

Surely someone should investigate this recent phenomenon whereby people in their twilight years experience an overwhelming compulsion to collect reproductions which can then be passed down to, or left in the loft to be found by, a family member, and preferably one who knows nothing about coins.

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Michael-Roo

[1949threepence]

16 hours ago, Generic Lad said:

Hey all, so let me start out by saying I'm by no means a bun head penny expert or that bronze coinage is even really in my interests, however I found this on eBay tonight and ended up winning the auction ($12 US, probably overpaid but...). According to my copy of Freeman and from what I can tell online, the only reverse known for the 1862 penny is Freeman G (probably has a different reference for other references) it looks like one of the key die indicators of reverse G is that the sea extends beyond the circle all the way to the border... However, I'm not seeing this in my coin? Since I just won this auction I don't have this in hand this is the best pictures I've been able to get. The pictures don't seem to want to be uploaded here in full so I've made an album on IMGUR here: https://imgur.com/a/UcBshRd

 

Any ideas here?

As others have said, a fake, and a very obvious one. When you've looked at thousands of real pennies, the fake ones hit you in the eye immediately. 

The obverse looks more like an obverse 2 than a 6, but that sure ain't no Freeman 38. 

[Paddy]

1 hour ago, Generic Lad said:

Well -- that'd be why I couldn't find it in references

 

Here's the seller in question: https://www.ebay.com/sch/hunt51/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

 

Since I bought the item it looks like he's listed some others -- many are obviously repros

 

Seems weird though that they'd bother faking a common date 1d! But I suppose that explains why I couldn't find a reference to it -- I'll probably keep it and will post the weight and other specs of it and keep it as a reminder that because its not in the standard references -- it might just mean its a fake its already shipped so probably not worth it to bother returning it anyways

 

 

@Generic LadWhilst I appreciate your unwillingness to get involved in an argument with the seller, the problem is that when people who have been conned like you do not take action, you encourage con-men to continue their fraudulent practices and others to emulate them. I encourage you to take action to call him out so he does not defraud anyone else.

 

[Peckris]

19 hours ago, Generic Lad said:

Hey all, so let me start out by saying I'm by no means a bun head penny expert or that bronze coinage is even really in my interests, however I found this on eBay tonight and ended up winning the auction ($12 US, probably overpaid but...). According to my copy of Freeman and from what I can tell online, the only reverse known for the 1862 penny is Freeman G (probably has a different reference for other references) it looks like one of the key die indicators of reverse G is that the sea extends beyond the circle all the way to the border... However, I'm not seeing this in my coin? Since I just won this auction I don't have this in hand this is the best pictures I've been able to get. The pictures don't seem to want to be uploaded here in full so I've made an album on IMGUR here: https://imgur.com/a/UcBshRd

I'm afraid it looks like a clear fake to me. 

[Generic Lad]

Yep -- got my money back for this and the coins look to be taken down

[zookeeperz]

Well all bar 1 but strangely and directly because of your intervention the sole coin he has for sale mas marked copy on the envelope. (more like they all were until he was sussed) I reported him earlier as well. I think for any novice reading an inro that starts. "handed down,relative died,I am selling for a friend,I know nothing about coins" all of these are red lights alarms to run for the hills and all normally have between 20-90 feedback generated by the ring of scammers they are in. Whilst there may well be a genuine seller as a matter of security for yourself just ignore it and move on. If it sounds too good to be true it 99/100 times is.so.