1897 dot penny. Advice needed.

[RLC35]

20 hours ago, Zo Arms said:

Would you be able to re photograph please Bob? I appreciate that you said that it's a difficult operation but I seem to remember doubt cast in a previous thread.

 

I will try to re-photograph, with a fixed camera position, so you can definitely see each dot position with reference to the toothed ring. The only real problem is the reflection that the slab presents, but I will give it a try.

 

[Mr T]

On 5/16/2020 at 7:31 AM, Zo Arms said:

Hi.

Welcome back.

This is a thought only, open to discussion or ridicule, viewed from a carpenters point of view.

Here goes.

Reverse B. Quite happily churning out pennies. It's getting on a bit and a small die crack appears.

You need to prolong its life for a while because the new reverse C die isn't quite ready.

To prevent the crack traveling further, you drill a small hole just in front of it. This will stall the cracks line of travel. Not prevent it. Just stall it.

A perfectly round hole. Or dot. 

Fill the crack in as an added form of strength, clean it off and away you go again. A dot penny.

Hole fills with grease and gunk and becomes the shadow of the dot. You can see it on some 97's in the right light. Can't feel it as raised, but you can make out where it is.

After a while the die crack continues its travel. The dot hole deforms as a result and you're left with Jerry's penny.

But you've achieved your aim. You've prolonged the life of the die. The new reverse C is now ready and production resumes as before.

I'm sure that this theory is full of faults and assumptions but it's food for thought.

Bob.

I vaguely recall reading a similar theory before so you may be onto something - might have been in one of Michael Gouby's books? I really can't remember now.

[AardHawk]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:40 PM, Mr T said:

I vaguely recall reading a similar theory before so you may be onto something - might have been in one of Michael Gouby's books? I really can't remember now.

Its not a theory its standard engineering practice,

Whats really interesting is my computer says its 17:08 on Friday, but the forum software thinks it is some time on Saturday, 11:40pm. How does that work?

Edited August 7, 2020 by AardHawk

[Peckris 2]

4 hours ago, AardHawk said:

Its not a theory its standard engineering practice,

Whats really interesting is my computer says its 17:08 on Friday, but the forum software thinks it is some time on Saturday, 11:40pm. How does that work?

No, it thinks @Mr T is at Saturday 11:40, not you!! Your computer, like mine, appears to be giving the right time.

[Rob]

The date of Mr T's post is a bit of a giveaway too.

[Zo Arms]

On 12/31/2017 at 12:43 PM, terrysoldpennies said:

What Jerry and Rob have said is true, I think the 1897 was included by Freeman because the dot was large, perfectly spherical, and set in a position which looked as though I was  placed there deliberately . I have many dot / Comer pennies all unlisted, but most are of little interest as they do not significantly increase the appeal of the coin.   Terry

You say that you have many dot/comma pennies. If it's no trouble, would you mind looking to see what percentage have a die crack present, please? And if everyone else could do the same please. Perfectly round holes near a die crack.

As a collective of the top coin experts, with a combined collection of the best coins to be seen, it should be possible to establish whether the dot is deliberate.

And not just pennies. The theory should apply to all denominations.

Apologies if I've become boring.

[Zo Arms]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:10 PM, AardHawk said:

Its not a theory its standard engineering practice,

 

[terrysoldpennies]

Hi Zo .  Funnily enough as you may know I bought a 1922 dot on trident penny recently , and was having a really good close up look at the dot with the magnifying glass, only to discover a minute crack running from the teeth down along the right side of the centre prong of the trident  .   The crack is hard to see as it blends in with the scratching damage on the face of the die .  This dot is of course circular and not elongated at all. 

 I had a count up of all the dot pennies and found that six are elongated , and show a crack running off or extremely close to the dot/comma.  I've just three with almost perfectly circular dots two of which have a tiny crack running off the dot .  The only one I have with no sign of a crack at all is the 1897 dot , but Freeman states that an example was found showing a tiny crack nearby .  I don't have an 1870 dot or the cannon ball 1875 which look to be circular in shape.   

 My thoughts on the drilling of a hole at the end of a crack in order to stop it spreading would only work on a flat sheet , in this case the die is a deep block of metal , and a crack would run extremely deep down into that block , perhaps as deep as an inch [2.5 cm] or more, and it would seem to me that drilling down to that depth with a drill bit of 1mm or less would be near impossible .  Any shallow drilled hole would be ineffective as the crack would continue to spread deep within the die

Picture       Terry

[alfnail]

1 hour ago, terrysoldpennies said:

I don't have an 1870 dot or the cannon ball 1875 which look to be circular in shape.   

1870 dot almost circular, can't see a flaw on my lower grade piece.