George II Shilling

[Gaz T]

Metal detecting find, is it normal to get die cracks in milled coins or is this a contemporary fake? Thanks for any help.

[Rob]

You can get flan cracks in both milled and hammered. If the weight is about right, then it is likely the coin will be too. If you have haymarking, you might find the copper is preferentially leached from the coin when it is underground. I guess that would depend on conditions.

[bagerap]

Haymarking? A new one for me. Care to expand on that please Rob.

[Peckris]

No die crack - that would result in a raised line or flaw, not corrosion or decay in the coin surface.

[mrbadexample]

24 minutes ago, bagerap said:

Haymarking? A new one for me. Care to expand on that please Rob.

 

[zookeeperz]

2 hours ago, Gaz T said:

Metal detecting find, is it normal to get die cracks in milled coins or is this a contemporary fake? Thanks for any help.

I don't know how many reverse types there are for this year but the lettering is far to modern for my liking. most of the 1734 have curved bottoms and the I's are very distinctive almost peg shaped . Lions in the shield a far too close to the shield border. And I would expect like with most of these coins from this era to show weakness in certain areas as opposed to that mono made to look wear that is completely uniform that is a trademark of cast coins. Might just be the picture but I wouldn't go for it.

Edited December 9, 2017 by zookeeperz

[Gaz T]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

You can get flan cracks in both milled and hammered. If the weight is about right, then it is likely the coin will be too. If you have haymarking, you might find the copper is preferentially leached from the coin when it is underground. I guess that would depend on conditions.

Sorry the weight  is 6 gr and 26mm across the coin.

[Rob]

14 minutes ago, Gaz T said:

Sorry the weight  is 6 gr and 26mm across the coin.

That's fine. I can't see anything wrong with it. My example is attached. Sorry about it being a scan and a bit featureless.

[Paulus]

I can't see anything wrong with it either, not a 1734 but here's my example of the type:

[Gaz T]

Thanks Rob.

Can you suggest anything to clean the soil out of the cracks, are there any chemicals you can use for cleaning coins, a lot of my coins still have a lot of soil attached. Was always told not to clean coins. I give them a soapy wash and that's it.

[Rob]

There's cleaning and cleaning. You can use soapy water or some other suitable solvent depending on what you want to remove. Try it in an ultrasonic bath, but only as long as the coin is held suspended and not touching the sides of the vessel. What you don't want to use is a Brillo Pad. Looking at a lot of detector finds, I suspect that message hasn't got through. If you have greasy deposits then a suitable organic solvent wouldn't go amiss. 

I suppose the crucial point, if you intend to use physical contact, is to use something with a lower Mohs scale value than the material you are trying to clean.

[Gaz T]

Nice coins Rob.

like Zookeeperz said about the I s in the legend, I was thinking exactly the same, as some of the I s have flat bottoms, I take it this was caused by dirty dies as you said on another coin I had. Glad you put your coins up to see as yours have the same flat bottom I s.

[Rob]

With the exception of a few well documented types, the likelihood of a coin being dodgy is very low. People get exercised for obvious reasons about the fakes being touted as real that emanate from China, but these coins are known to collectors. If there were lots of copies around of other types, the word would soon get out. That it hasn't is a fairly good reflection of the risk. Copy types are measured in the hundreds or maybe a thousand by now, but are characteristically too good to be true. Taking the British coinage over the past couple of millennia, it is fair to say that the number of varieties combined with dates is into 6 figures. Look at individual dies and we are probably well over a million.

Got to keep things in perspective.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Rob

[Gaz T]

I buy very few coins as I always worry about if they are real. normally coins found in the fields are real or contemporary fakes, you don't see many Chinese people sowing the fields with gothic crowns. well not yet. I have found some fakes that would be worth quite a few quid if real but 95 percent of the time you know as soon as they come out of the ground if real or not.

This was an unusual contemporary fake I found.

Spanish 8 reales .. pillar dollar. Its a copper core with just a wash of some material that the layer of silver would have been attached to.

I still really like the contemp fakes as they must have so much History attached to them.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Gaz T

[bagerap]

Believe it or not Gaz, you have a collectable there. I'm not into all the intricacies but many of these early fakes were produced legally in the UK using silver cladding  and later electroplate.

[Gaz T]

I did not know that, made legally by who? mine has a copper core I gave the edge a slight scrape as wasn't sure if it was worn silver.

lovely coin as well Paulus.

9 hours ago, bagerap said:

Believe it or not Gaz, you have a collectable there. I'm not into all the intricacies but many of these early fakes were produced legally in the UK using silver cladding  and later electroplate.

 

[Gaz T]

Here is another wopper I found,  Your heart misses a beat when a coin like this pops out of the ground.

George III Dollar. 40 mm across

[Gaz T]

And the rev

[Rob]

If you aren't careful, Seuk will be organising another Danish invasion. Just sayin'. 

[Gaz T]

Ha ha  maybe Rob

And another for him/her.

George III half crown.

[bagerap]

"I did not know that, made legally by who? "

Most were made in Birmingham, but I believe that the Royal Mint were also involved.

[Gaz T]

Thanks bagerap, will see if I can find any info on them.

hard to believe 

the mint were knocking out silver washed coins.

[Ukstu]

The Geo III Irish bank tokens were heavily counterfeited. You occasionally see more brass ones for sale on eBay than genuine. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Ukstu

[seuk]

I'm quite sure the Royal Mint wasn't involved in the counterfeiting. There are rumors that some of the counterfeit 8 reales were produced with support from the government during the wars with Spain but as far I know it's mere speculation. Also I'm not sure about the laws regarding counterfeiting of foreign coins - but it seems to have been partly legal up to the start of the 19th ct and a large number of European and other coins are known to have been counterfeited in Birmingham, mostly in the late 18th ct.

[Ukstu]

The rumours are probably true. Counterfeiting of an enemy states currency to destabilize their economy is a well known trick going back centuries.