Royal Mint again!

[Geordie582]

Once again the statement has been made by the Royal Mint that The 'Legal tender' commemorative crowns they produce are not acceptable by banks or for use as currency. This makes a mockery of the whole British monetary system. Collectors, on the whole, knew this but youngsters and gift giving elderly people did not. Fraud perhaps?

[copper123]

Either they are legal tender or they are not .

Perhaps someone should ask for info under the freedom of information act , that would teach them

[Nordle11]

Yes it makes no sense, we were laughing at their statement about it being legal tender that is not to be accepted in banks or in shops. Sounds like bull*&%$ to me.

[Paulus]

I imagine the response they would give to a FOI request would be the (or their) definition of legal tender.

Interesting posts in Chris' Facebook Group ' Pay your court debt/fines in £20, £50 and £100 coins NOW'

Greed has got the better of them imo

[Geordie582]

Fine, Paulus, but as they fix the definition we've nowhere to go! As for paying fines in crowns, you've got to be fined first!!!

[Paulus]

Chris' group is designed to test the RM's narrow definition of legal tender - so far no-one has posted that they have been able to pay court fines with these coins!

And yes, virtually nowhere to go!

[Geordie582]

A  Neat side-step by the Mint

What are the legal tender amounts acceptable for the United Kingdom coins?

Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation.

Both parties to a transaction are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender transaction it is necessary, for example, to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amounts:

£100 - for any amount
£20 - for any amount
£5 (Crown) - for any amount 
£2 - for any amount 
£1 - for any amount 
50p - for any amount not exceeding £10 
25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10 
20p - for any amount not exceeding £10 
10p - for any amount not exceeding £5 
5p - for any amount not exceeding £5 
2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p 
1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

[Nutsaboutcoins]

It's not only the definition of "legal tender" which I think is a much misunderstood term, but their use of the term "face value" which they say they are selling the coins at. Yes the face of the coin states £100 etc but surely "face VALUE" suggests the coin has that value?

Are these even coins? or just tokens or medallions with some meaningless legend "£100"  

I would love someone being sued by the RM for payment, to pay them in there own so called coins.

Ian..  

[Paulus]

I do not any longer regard these as coins of the realm, I see no difference between these and some tat produced by Westminster or The London Mint Office

Yes I know they are 'approved by the Queen'

[Rob]

One thought that has just been conveyed to me. Do we now have a prospective future issue to be countermarked with a greyhound or portcullis?

Alternatively, if they are not legal tender, then there is no reason why anybody can't gert a job lot made in China for 10p each and flog them at a huge profit. If not legal tender, then this would not be illegal, methinks.

[Nutsaboutcoins]

15 minutes ago, Rob said:

One thought that has just been conveyed to me. Do we now have a prospective future issue to be countermarked with a greyhound or portcullis?

Alternatively, if they are not legal tender, then there is no reason why anybody can't gert a job lot made in China for 10p each and flog them at a huge profit. If not legal tender, then this would not be illegal, methinks.

When they due you Rob for counterfeiting Rob, dont forget to pay your fine in £100 tokens 

[Nordle11]

6 minutes ago, Nutsaboutcoins said:

When they due you Rob for counterfeiting Rob, dont forget to pay your fine in £100 tokens 

 

[copper123]

I think we need a statement from the royal mint in my idea would be to ask them if these coins are "money" or not in other words stop marketing these coins as "coins with a face value" if they cannot be spent , that will clear up any missunderstandings.

In the future we might have "Queens hundredth birthday medal" with no face value .

 

[1949threepence]

On 3/22/2016 at 10:49 AM, Geordie582 said:

Once again the statement has been made by the Royal Mint that The 'Legal tender' commemorative crowns they produce are not acceptable by banks or for use as currency. This makes a mockery of the whole British monetary system. Collectors, on the whole, knew this but youngsters and gift giving elderly people did not. Fraud perhaps?

Yet they make the absolute statement of fact pronouncement that Crowns are legal tender. The statement is totally clear cut and without any degree of ambiguity. So if they back pedal and say that actually, no, they're not acceptable by banks or for use as currency, then to my way of thinking they are deliberately misrepresenting a material fact by stating that they are. Could lead to a very interesting legal argument if tested in court.    

Are there two separate definitions for "legal tender"? - not that I've seen.

[scott]

wasn't this because people were cheating the system, was reports of someone stuck with thousands of pounds of commemoratives they were buying on credit card for rewards and whatever, then paying it off by cashing in the coins.

 

[1949threepence]

44 minutes ago, scott said:

wasn't this because people were cheating the system, was reports of someone stuck with thousands of pounds of commemoratives they were buying on credit card for rewards and whatever, then paying it off by cashing in the coins.

 

Indeed, it's this case Scott. But their definition still has them as legal tender.

Quote

 

The coins, such as the £100 'face value' Buckingham Palace coin issued last year are limited edition and are described by Royal Mint as legal tender. They also have a 14 day returns policy. 

But its terms and conditions section on the website describes legal tender as having 'a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts.'

It adds: 'In practice this means that although the face-value UK coins in denominations of £5, £20, £50 and £100 are approved as legal tender, they have been designed as limited edition collectables or gifts and will not be entering general circulation.

'As such, UK shops and banks are not obliged to accept them in return for goods and services.'

 

To most people, legal tender means it is a coin of the realm which can be tendered in exchange for goods and services. Whilst I can understand shops refusing or being uncertain when offered the coins, the same should not apply to a bank. It appears to me that goalposts are beig artificially moved to accommodate the convenience of banks and others, as opposed to the convenience of customers.   

[Gary1000]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Indeed, it's this case Scott. But their definition still has them as legal tender.

To most people, legal tender means it is a coin of the realm which can be tendered in exchange for goods and services. Whilst I can understand shops refusing or being uncertain when offered the coins, the same should not apply to a bank. It appears to me that goalposts are beig artificially moved to accommodate the convenience of banks and others, as opposed to the convenience of customers.   

I think the statement limited edition collectables or gifts says it all.