1897 Penny, spot between O and N. Possibly?

[IanB]

Just got hold of this penny. The question is, is it a 1897 penny with a spot between the O and N? It is quite small but I have had a look at some other examples and it looks like it is in the right place.

I will send a second picture on another message as the one on this post is near the 500kb limit

[IanB]

Second picture of penny.

Thank you

[azda]

Can't see anything to be honest. The 1897 dot that you're hoping for looks more like a colon dot.

[IanB]

I will try and get a better picture with a bit of an angle to it rather than straight on

[Nordle11]

Hi Ian, you might have one with a very faint dot, I assume it's the slight bump to the left of that small chip and not the chip itself?

Here's mine overlapped on your picture, I put a yellow dot where it should be to help.

[secret santa]

It does seem to be in the right place but doesn't look substantial enough - but, given that the dot on the die will be incuse, maybe the hole filled up over time creating weaker specimens.

[IanB]

Had another go. Using a mobile phone and photographing through a magnifying glass

[Nordle11]

It does seem to be in the right place but doesn't look substantial enough - but, given that the dot on the die will be incuse, maybe the hole filled up over time creating weaker specimens.

Or that it began as a very small chip and wore away progressively, so this was one of the first struck with this flaw and with each subsequent strike the dot became more prominent.

Had another go. Using a mobile phone and photographing through a magnifying glass

Much better, and looks good to me!

[azda]

Ah ha latest picture looks better

[1949threepence]

At page 92 of his book, "The British Bronze Penny, 1860 to 1901" Michael Gouby says of the 1897 raised dot, Freeman 147:-

"Rev: Die Flaw. Result a small raised dot between the O and N of ONE. It is possible that a small piece of grit, metal filing, etc, got trapped on the die leaving a small indent when it fell out. Thereby, when the die was next used the result was - a small raised dot o the coin! Originally it was thought to be a die identification mark, which has since been discounted."

At page 51 of his 1985 edition of "The Bronze coinage of Great Britain", Michael Freeman says:-

"Some specimens of 1897 with reverse B are found with a small circular dot between the O and N of ONE. This feature occurs as a result of damage to the die - a specimen showing only a small crack in this area has been seen"

So it's possible it might have started out small and grown larger.

[PWA 1967]

Think Bronze collector has numerous examples that were posted on another thread.

Gary may have the answers ?.

[Nordle11]

I didn't know there were varieties of the 1897 flaw, you're not thinking of the 1946 round dot and diamond dot we were talking about the other week?

I can't find the thread through searches anyway but it's a little difficult on here.

[PWA 1967]

No Matt ...........Gary has numerous different pictures that were shown ages ago on another post 1897 penny.

Unless i am wrong as i normally am

[Nordle11]

No idea then, have a quick search but "1897 dot" doesn't bring up anything!

[PWA 1967]

Probably wrong again

However i was pretty sure Gary had posted pictures of different ones he had.

Maybe he can let us provide the answer ...............

[just.me]

Think Bronze collector has numerous examples that were posted on another thread.

Gary may have the answers ?.

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/7660-rare-edward-vii-penny-varieties/page-2?hl=%2B1897+%2Bflaw#entry81086

here is the thread

[PWA 1967]

Thanks just.me

Thought i remembered something .

[Nordle11]

Cheers I couldn't find it for the life of me!