Prax

As a collector of currency issues pennies only, here's why I shy away from proofs. There are far too many scarce years and types within the penny series that can keep one so busy for a lifetime that the presence of proofs is best seen as a nuisance. Further unlike Silver and Gold, Copper and Bronze coins react pretty much with anything and lose their mint state. So to find something that has beaten the odds to survive in good nick is something I (personally) find fascinating. Consequently the tendency is to go for the currency issue because out of many thousands a handful have survived in decent grade as opposed to the 3 or 4 proofs made for the same year that are all probably still fine and dandy after spending time in a safe somewhere. This is possibly why proofs of some years are less expensive than the corresponding currency issues (think 1950, 1951, 1953 etc). I recently came across an 1895 2mm proof that sold for lot less than an 1895 2mm currency version in unc. Further most penny collectors are obsessed with varieties, one of every type is better than the sharpest or shiniest and this obsession feeds into the next generation automatically or the minute one unwittingly obtain a scarce variety. The joys of Penny collecting .....

........... and so it begins http://colincooke.com/collections/copthornecollection.html

Very scarce in that grade 78/80/82?

Sums up EU. I love Europe but would love for us to take our own decisions (or to make our own mistakes).

Was commenting on coin strikes in another thread and I thought of posting something about the strange 1876H penny from the Elstree Collection (lot 2431). The coin had a mirrorlike finish but also had a dig by the second 'N' of Penny. I am curious to find out if this was really a specimen strike; if so I can't see why someone would try a specimen strike on a flawed flan (especially when you consider proofs are not noted for this date as far as I know). The other possibility is that it was indeed a specimen strike that was disfigured post strike. The final possibility being the coin is a genuine early currency strike, then again the flaw is most certainly post strike, considering the rest of the coin is in mint state why would anyone mess about with just one area of the coin? Was the mint testing the metallic composition, if so they could have done that prior to striking the coin? Another reason I suspect the flaw happened post strike is - if you look at the lower part of the N you will notice that it is cleanly struck even though the metal underneath had been scooped out, if the flaw existed prior to the strike then the N would not have been cleanly struck as the striking would have caused the metal to bend inwards around the flaw. Further the flaw was certainly not a lamination problem but a clear deliberate scoop of the metal post strike (from what I inferred). It was one to study carefully but at £600 I lost interest and because I did not have my microscope to hand while inspecting the coin I could not study the coin as much as I would have loved. The flaw was irregular in shape and depth of the dig was uneven. If he owner of the coin is on the forum I would very much want to hear his views or the views of anyone who closely examined the coin or from someone who has seen a similar flaw elsewhere.

All the very best with the sale.

Gary, I have handled only 2 1909 dot specimens and they were both similar to your Specimen 1. However I must also highlight that I have come across many 1897 dot specimens. In most cases the dots are small specs almost between the O and N. However I have noticed that on some specimens the flaw is quite large (as the dot grows in size the positioning also moves closer to the top of O)

I agree Pete; I got mine for £1600 so not much fat there between mine and the coin in question. However if it were not for my 1871 I would have definitely bid. The 4 flaws I mentioned would missed the average collector’s eye, but then the average collector is not going to look for a choice 1871; so your point is well taken.

I was in Croydon Coin Auctions today and wanted to let anyone interested know that they had a nice 1871 penny for sale. CCA had listed the coin as UNC and prooflike. As far as I know the coin did not sell and had a reserve of £1200. I have to stress that I won’t give it an UNC grade because I noted 4 minor problems with the coin. 2 minor verdigris spots on the reverse one of which could amount to minor surface corrosion Minor bag marks Minor edge cut at 1 o clock And minor rub or a weak strike on the obverse especially by the rose and on the front wreath leaves Other than that the coin was a beauty I am sure it may be available for £1000, who knows. I have a better specimen and I am saving up for the 2 big auctions in May, so I did not bid but it is not a bad coin for £1200 and I would definitely recommend viewing the coin if 1871 is a date you are after. I have to admit that in my years of collecting I haven’t seen many better grade (save 2 or 3) 1871 pennies myself.

Bob you will find the info on Richard's site https://headsntails14.wordpress.com/victoria-bronze-obverses/ There is a difference in the number of teeth but the core is on Obv 2 the A of VICTORIA points to a gap whereas on 2* it points to a tooth. Jerry did I miss something there? Does that mean that a N over sideways N 1860 has been spotted with a 2* Obv?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/311208529997?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9045912&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=aud-133395220626%3Apla-131843277666&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=122 I prefer these especially with the dark rings that keep the coins still within their capsules. They are also acid free.

Contagious - and I thought such things happened only with me. Don't know how I managed multiple insertions of the same pic.

That's what I would call a true rarity. Nice coin Matt.

The Gouby book recommends that there's little point looking at date spacing as far as the pre 1866 pennies are concerned. I have spoken to both Mr Gouby and Mr Freeman and both have said that this is because there are far too many combinations as far as the pre 1866 reverses are concerned. I have also looked at the 5 rev f pennies in my possession of which 3 have normally placed dates. One has narrow date spacing and 1 has a widely spaced date with a lower trailing one (I have attached this pic for you to look at, I would like to highlight however that there are just 13 teeth between the two 1s in my example but 14 in yours). Hope this is of some use.

Looks like your son works in IT or he plays the markets. In the IT industry so long as the job gets done and one is contactable between 9:30 to 16:00 hrs UK time, no one cares. My wife, who also works in IT, and I made the best use of time (between 2002 and 2010) to see the world, we would be working from Nepal one day and from Thailand the next. After that owing to childcare responsibilities we are restricted to just 3 or 4 scheduled holidays a year, which have to coincide with my son’s school hols. This means we can no longer travel as much as we used to and my wife works reduced hours to ensure she is with my son at all times that he's not in school. I can relate to what your son is doing. My best wishes to him and to his fiancée.

Good buy Jerry. Does that mean your son is collecting too?

That's a good video. I would also recommend that everyone watch The Big Short to get a feel for how a handful of people dictate how the rest of the world lives its lives. More importantly there's an undercurrent that is shaking the fundamentals of financial institutions and it's time the average Joe understands it's possible for anyone to benefit from bankers' greed. And Markets is the mother of bankers' greed! Ideally governments will have to pass a law, allowing citizens to take the bankers to court, wherever it is proven that someone has been impacted because of market manipulation (just as is the case with PPI misspelling) but then we are not in Iceland (where the government has balls to stand up to bankers) are we? In Iceland anyone who had a mortgage would have had automatic refunds once the LIBOR scandal was exposed.But did that happen elsewhere? The (million dollar) question is 'should the real extent of market manipulation be exposed will there be anything in it for the average Mr Joe Bloggs'? Will it just be a fine on the banks and the prince and princess lived ..... story or will the people who bought silver at $45 or gold at $1900 an ounce be suitably compensated? My guess is probably not (because a PPI style framework is still not in place) but what's your take?

Time to play guess the grade then To be honest I couldn't have taken worse pics of the coin if I wanted to, but I will share the results of the exercise.

But is it not the Central Banks (of Russia, China, Turkey ...) that are actually buying?

Scarce coins those. Good job Dave. Picked this coin up this afternoon. It's got nice mirror like obverse. Some hairlines on the portrait but will fetch at least a MS62RB through PCGS. The coin is available for a swap (identical grade and identical Freeman rarity). Sorry I should have said available for swap after it returns from PCGS.

Some lovely coin but rather optimistic pricing as far as I am concerned. Thanks for the headsup. Hope you found something thing you wanted.

Lovely coin.

You are on holiday and pick up a local newspaper to find Canada has sold all its gold??? Really??? Surely this is Soviet propaganda or is it??? Where is BBC? Obviously nothing to report on the matter I presume.

Not surprised, but then is Scott not the King of Bargains? ? True! £1000 seems like the threshold for varieties. The ONF from the Elstree Collection fetched £600 or so. Bargain me thinks or is it really when you consider 3 die numbered pennies exchanged hands for under £1000 in the last month or so alone? Rich, I got your message but the messaging facility works pants on my tab. I will respond with the pictures when I reach London.

Kosher it is ? I just found it amazing that an R18 coin would go for 99p. Back in 2003 I purchased a similar specimen for £400. At the same time I also picked up a f41 and a 1882 London mint penny for about the same price. The 1882 I had slabbed and it achieved a CGS 3 if I recall correctly. The coin is currently with Guy F and after changing hands it realised £1400 (?), I believe or that is what Guy paid for (a couple of years back) it from what I gather. All these are pretty rare coins but the 1861 is not something everyone's looking for and as quite a few forum members have pointed out the demand, for varieties as far as the pennies is concerned, is rather subdued at the moment. To be fair the coin ain't a stunner and perhaps as you say anyone looking perhaps had a better specimen.