Generic Lad

This isn't a laugh like most of them, being as it is (reasonably) priced and such but the obverse is just hilariously bad. http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEORGE-II-HALF-GUINEA-COIN-WEIGHT-/280836444700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item416328121c I know coin weights aren't great at the best of times, but I think this one takes the cake!

Well, I was looking through my collection and came across this 1694 farthing I got a while back and as I was looking at it closer I noticed that it appeared as if the last "A" in Britannia was missing the cross-bar, and the first "A" does too, but that part of the coin is so dark and worn that you have to tilt it towards the light, to see what is the metal and what is the corrosion. What do you all think. If it is an inverted "V" how much is it worth? I'm assuming next to nothing being as the coin is in absolute crap condition. Apologies for the terrible pictures.

Agreed - and being published annually, it's more up to date too. Under a fiver on amazon! I think I will get a copy. Does anyone know what the release date will be for the 2012 edition? Save me buying two if its out soon. Chris Perkins the owner of this site can only tell you that. I can't see a 2012 edition coming out this year....but I'm sure Chris will confirm. The information on rarities and key dates won't change. Quite ironic. I was looking at numismatic literature on Amazon and found the 2009 edition on there used for 76 cents with $3.99 shipping and bought it about 3 days ago. And speaking of which, any other good (cheap!, yes this means no Peck ) reference books to get? So far I have: Spinks (a few editions, newest 2009), Coincraft (1997 edition I believe), quite a few "world coin" general reference books, quite a few US books ranging from general (Red Book) to specific (pattern coins and civil war tokens), and whenever it arrives in my mailbox, Collector Coins of Great Britain On my watchlist are, England's Striking History, a copy of Freeman, a copy of Peck (I can always hope I can find one at a used bookstore or library sale!) and also I'd like to find a cheap copy of Spinks from before decimalization just to see the commentary and the prices in LSD Any other glaring omissions?

That's odd... I can't edit my post... Anyways, the 1915 ended up being the widely spaced variety. Ah well.

Thanks for all the advice, I did actually manage to get a 1915 Farthing yesterday so I'm going to have to go try and see what variety it is.

Does anyone know of a good list of major copper (well bronze) rarities to keep an eye out for? I really don't seriously collect copper (I'm more for the silver side) but what are some good years and major die varieties to look out for that are worth significant amounts of money (as in, greater than like $15-20) The reason that I ask is that I've found lots of pre-decimal copper at antique shops and other places priced as curiosities ($2-5 per penny, $1-3 for half-pennies, $1-2 for farthings) and most are fairly low grade (and some have corrosion on them) Now of course, for common dates/varieties these in no way would be collectible, but if there was a rare die variety in there it would be worth purchasing. The most common ones I've found are "ship" half-pennies, George V and VI farthings and pennies from bun head onwards. Chances are I'm not going to have my loupe with me to check for micro-varieties so just the major ones that are easily seen with the naked eye and would be visible on a worn coin.

Well, from what I can tell the type of the slab checks out alright, the green label of that style does correspond to the reverse used. From what I've read, the best way to compare genuine and fakes is from the font size, which of course is quite difficult because few are the same size as the eBay picture. This entire process highlights the main problems with slabbed coins and why eBay's policy of increasingly going to slabbed coins is a bad idea. 1) With a few exceptions, you can't get photos of the coins. This coin in question has so many identifying features that had PCGS had a high resolution photo of the coins they graded that you could access by looking up the cert # this case would be solved in 5 seconds with no doubt if the coin was fake or genuine. Out of all my slabbed coins, only my (quite overpriced) double-denarius has any photos when you go to the grader's (NGC's) website. 2) It makes selling fakes easy because people's guard is let down both buyers and dealers. Unless the person in question was an expert in half-guinea die varieties, the average coin dealer would simply type in the coin's cert #, see that the cert number was the same as the type of coin and buy it. Sadly few would question if it was genuine, by relying on slabs you've taken something that is fairly hard to counterfeit, particularly if you see it in person (a coin) and made something easy to counterfeit (a slab of plastic, a hologram and a piece of paper). By the time someone notices the coin is counterfeit, it might have changed hands three or four times making the counterfeiter impossible to find. After all, legitimate coin dealers can be fooled quite easily. 3) It adds needless expense. If scammers can create fake slabs, the next step is preventing counterfeits by essentially "slabbing slabs" which is what services such as CAC does. I'm assuming this will be the next thing eBay will require, that all coins be slabbed and all slabbed coins be re-certified. 4) In the end, we are breeding collectors who cannot grade for themselves, collectors who cannot detect counterfeits themselves. Eye appeal will be destroyed in the name of "net grade" a beautifully toned Morgan dollar that NGC calls a MS-64 will be replaced with a preference for a dull grey dollar that NGC calls a MS-65. We will soon be collectors not of coins, but of paper, plastic and stickers.

Yes, I was hoping I was not the only one. The rim beads remind me too much of some counterfeit US trade dollars I've seen. And the plating seems to be coming off at a weird edge. I also find it odd that with such massive pitting on the coat of arms that PCGS didn't put environmental damage on there. It looks like someone took a leather punch to it. I'm trying to find more information on PCGS slabs to see if the type is authentic (right label and right reverse) but can't seem to find much information on the older style ones like this. I'm much more knowledgeable about NGC than PCGS but surely the information has to be someplace.

The certification lookup shows that there is a population of 2 in AU-50 I find this coin unusual for the same reasons that everyone else does: It appears to be overgraded. I would say EF-45 (using the American grading) would be an alright grade (but still a bit high). There is no way this coin is borderline uncirculated. The wreath on the obverse is worn nearly flat, the buckle on the garter looks "mushy", there appears to be massive pitting on the reverse on the top part of the coat of arms. The bottom beads on the reverse look "mushy", etc. Not to mention the coin looks plated. When it comes down to it, is it possible this is a coin in a fake slab?

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like. The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals. Hi, generic lad, I'm really so impressed with your capacity to speak authoritatively in these matters. It intrigues me enough to enquire, if I may, as to your knowledge base? Please don't misunderstand me in any way, I have absolutely no knowledge of these things myself, only the intelligence to question and assimilate information that I'm presented with! I find your arguments persuasive, but have long since abandoned rhyme without reason so, if your findings have come from a long-time, self-taught, interest in this field, I salute you, and if they are more conventionally academic pronouncements, that too I respect, I'm just genuinely interested in the journey you has Most of it has come from various sources online, along with some of my friends who live (or have lived) abroad. Most of it though has come from deduction from economic statistics. Take for example the US inflation rate, which is officially measured at ~2.30% (see http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/data/us-inflation/mcpi.cfm) now of course that doesn't measure the real inflation rate because the CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been actively manipulated by using a "basket" of items to show that the US has a lower inflation rate. For example, rather than measuring the price of, say, a pound of beef, the meats section would allow the government to cherry-pick the lowest price of beef, pork, or chicken (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement for some information about it) and using the older official method of measuring the CPI US inflation is close to 6% (see http://www.shadowstats.com/article/no-438-public-comment-on-inflation-measurement ) Of course CDs and saving account rates are different depending on the location and bank, but using one of the major national banks over here, Bank of America, it shows that their "featured" CDs have an annual yield of .45% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=cd_10&context=tabpage_Rates_Fees ) and a savings account has an annual yield of .05% (see http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=regular_savings_account ) Since that is much less than both the official inflation rate and the older-style inflation rate, anytime you put money in a CD, you are taking a guaranteed loss in purchasing power. Of course there are benefits in saving, especially if you have any emergencies come up but I simply don't see how "saving for retirement" in cash, CDs and savings accounts as being a useful investment. I also enjoy reading ZeroHedge for economic news ( http://www.zerohedge.com/ ) even if it can be a bit alarmist at times I certainly don't know everything and I'm sure if I knew more about finance I could find a few bright spots to put my cash, but I know enough about history to know that when you print money left and right (like what the Federal Reserve has done see: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE/ ) bad things happen. Rome didn't collapse in a day and neither will the US and Europe but unless something major happens, I can see the west entering an even more sharp decline and another region taking over the spot that the west has held since the 1700s as the most prosperous and most free region.

That is precisely what is so worrying about the current state of the western world. There is absolutely no incentive to save. A savings account won't keep up with inflation, neither will a CD or government bonds. In the US you can "save" by putting money in an individual retirement account (IRA) which (in the most common structures) is tax free until you take out money when it is taxed as income. There are 2 problems to this though, first, the chances of taxes decreasing is slim. Why would I pay a higher tax rate in the future rather than a smaller tax rate now? And it leaves the government open to raid it for free money or to force you to make "investments" in treasury bonds and the like. The dilemma is, as a young person where do you put your savings where they will grow. A savings account is a guaranteed loss, a CD is a guaranteed loss, an IRA is (most likely) going to be a loss. The stock markets are manipulated by those in power (both government and government-sponsored private sector). Real estate prices are low, but few banks want to loan money to purchase it and naturally I don't have the cash to buy it outright, plus prices seem to be still falling in some areas. Outside of creating a startup in a third-world country or being incredibly lucky there simply seems to be no place to put cash aside from in precious metals.

Yep, keep your bullion and your collector coins far apart! What makes a good bullion buy does not make for a good collector coin purchase. If you mix the two you will be unhappy in both areas. I've made that mistake a few times, I've started out buying mostly bullion but I've been trying to establish a nice numismatic collection.

Yes, I do think if gold continues this trend of dropping I'll pick up a nice (half) sovereign, I'd like to get one with a shield reverse or perhaps get some Mexican 2 gold peso coins. Fiat currencies have historically collapsed and in those collapses those who have owned hard assets such as gold and silver have emerged stronger or at least did not get burned as bad as those who have their savings in paper money. I don't view gold and silver as an investment. Instead, I view them more as my savings account as a way to hold wealth no matter how much Bernake decides to fire up the printing press or how many more European countries will go bankrupt. I'd love to invest in more "productive" assets such as stocks and bonds but the market has become so regulated, so political that a stroke of the pen can ruin successful companies. For example, anytime there is an oil spill no matter how much or how little the company was at fault, political opinion turns against them and there is a desire to "punish" the "greedy" company. Companies that develop life-saving drugs are especially affected, if a promising drug gets denied by the FDA or its European counterparts, millions of dollars go down the drain due to bureaucracy even if the drug was effective and had minimal side effects. Facebook could get slaughtered if political opinion turns against it and new US and European privacy laws go into effect targeting its advertising policies. Transferring wealth from fiat currencies to gold and silver seems to be the only option right now. The US is essentially bankrupt, it is only through the constant raising of the "debt ceiling" that prevents the US from defaulting on its obligations. The EU is well... the EU. The same problems that have plagued the EU and the US apply also to the UK and European nations not in the EU. Asia, Africa and Central/South America seems to be the only options and unless you have contacts over there, you can easily be burnt, especially if you don't understand the language or culture (which I do not).

Thanks for all the replies, I'm really only looking to do a date/mintmark run of circulated coins (and even that will be nearly impossible to complete) and not worry about varieties so much (although I will check mine for any rarities!) as just a date/mintmark run the same way that one might complete a set of Olympic 50p coins or a set of Lincoln wheat cents.

Does anyone know if there is a bun head penny album with all the dates/mintmarks listed? I'd prefer something like a Dansco album where you put the coin in and you can see both sides that will preserve the coin rather than a Whitman folder where you can only see one side and the coins get discolored and ruined for long term storage. I can find Australian pennies on the Dansco site which while they should be the same diameter, it wouldn't have the right dates/mintmarks. I don't need anything too very fancy, but I'd like a nice way to keep track of the pennies I have/need in an organized fashion without dealing with cardboard 2x2s or paper envelopes in a way that is safe for long term storage of the coins.

I think it looks a bit better than the 1965 Churchill crown myself!

All western currencies (especially the US dollar and the Euro) are declining fast and until hyperinflation comes and the currency collapses I can't see any end to it. However, if the penny does end up going away I can see a huge opportunity to make a lot of cash by scrapping the copper ones. In the US it is currently illegal to melt down pennies but people have been able to sell them on eBay to speculators who believe the melt ban will be lifted and get 1.5-2 cents per penny, when combined with an automatic sorter such as a ryedale it can be rather profitable. Of course, in the UK one only needs to get a magnet to distinguish between the two.

What exactly distinguishes a "VIP" proof from a normal proof? Am I correct in saying that a "VIP" proof is frosted unlike a normal proof and that is the only difference?

Most US collectors/dealers unless they specialize in British coins (haven't met a dealer who really has, although I'm in the center of the country and not on the east or west coats) would simply pay scrap for them or sell them as a curiosity. I don't think I've met a dealer who has marked any of his stuff with even a Spinks number instead its all been Krause numbers. Foreign coins are either marked for insanely cheap (they don't realize they have a key date or a silver coin) or overpriced (this is especially the case with coins dated in the 1700s or before, and especially with King George (I, II or III) coppers)) I'd imagine that if you wanted to spend the time going to dealer after dealer you could find quite a few key dates/varieties especially for pennies, but high grade or older stuff would be quite hard to find unless you went to a dealer who specialized in British coins.

Rare coin investing has really taken off in the past few years due to the recession because the traditional ways of investing (real estate, stock market, treasury bonds, CDs, etc.) have either been rather risky/unstable (stock market), have been losing value (real estate) or don't keep up with inflation (CDs, treasury bonds). The use of NGC/PCGS/CAC have really taken a lot of the risk/knowledge part out of the equation, the trend has been up, up, up with coins with less than 20 known examples and condition rarities (although condition rarities can quickly become common) and so its been attracting the wealthy.

So apparently eBay is now changing it so you can't advertise basic numeric grades in the listing unless your coin is certified via NGC or PCGS. And, your coin has to be certified by either of those two grading companies to sell a US coin over $2,500. Of course this means that anyone thinking about starting a grading company won't be able to sell on one of the largest marketplaces for coins and smaller but still reputable graders such as ANACS and IGC along with numerous grading companies not based in the US can't market their coins on eBay as graded. I simply cannot see how this will be of any benefit to sellers or buyers on eBay.

That's an idea, I frequently visit his site and perhaps he has some lower grade scrap stuff he'd be willing to sell. He's got some lovely coins but they are all out of my price range, I did find a nice Cnut penny that if I find an extra few hundred lying around I want to get Buy Englands striking history it will introduce you gently and in a readable way to hammered.It is a Rotographic book and a bargain. I think that will be my next book to get, I'm currently waiting for an older version of Coincraft from Amazon (got it for less than $4!) and after that I think I'll get that one, I've heard good things about it.

Does anyone know how I would go about getting just bulk scrap hammered because I want to get better at attributing them. Preferably just bulk lots that contain assorted coins (Tealby, long cross, short cross, Tudor, etc.) in attributable but not great condition (cut, corroded, etc.) from a US dealer (because international shipping isn't cheap). I've found some ones on eBay but the shipping is too high compared to the coin price ($2-3 for a cut penny isn't bad, but paying nearly $12 for shipping on that same coin is...)

Well, it wouldn't be true for US coins because only dead people are able to be featured on coins (and bills) and prior to 1909 no historical person appeared on any circulating coinage. And it is up to the artist to decide which way the bust is facing most of the common circulation coins face left (half dollar, quarter, dime, older nickel) but others face right (penny, SBA dollar, Susan B. Agony dollar, Sacajawea dollar) and others are shown more face on (presidential dollar, newer nickels)

Yes, this has always confused me, I can get $100+ face value of Eisenhower dollars at a bank and no coin dealers will buy them from me, but yet circulated Ike dollars creates bidding wars and they go for a healthy premium. Either way, they are easy enough to get rid of at face value and perhaps one day I'll get a silver dollar in the lot. I can dream at least!