Peckris

Or, it could be a serious misstrike. Yes, the diameter is crucial, as the design looks as though it's been struck on a larger flan, but this would only be clear once we knew how it compares to a kosher 5p of the day. The overall appearance is of a coin that's been machined in some way. It does look weird.

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices. I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts! I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have! I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver! Possibly unanswerable. Here's some Spink data comparing 2000 and 2005 (before the huge bullion increases of course): 1911M to 1918M : 2000 £75 ... 2005 £85 each 1929M : 2000 VF £500 EF £1750 ... 2005 VF £900 EF £1400 1930M : 2000 VF £95 EF £175 ... 2005 VF £95 EF £120 1931M : 2000 VF £150 EF £300 ... 2005 VF £200 EF £250 As you can see, the BV increased by around 15% in 5 years, but the coin values don't match up at all. Generally the VF prices range from static to much higher, while the EF prices are all lower. I'm sure if I picked a different series, the results would be different again.

Is that Dolphin Coins trading under a different name? I didn't know that. I used to enjoy flicking through The Sovereign, which had some gorgeous coins for sale if only I could have afforded them!

The decimal 5p and 10p came out in 1968 1969 and 1970, before D-Day. The 50p arrived in 1969 and 1970. The bronzes were available from 1968 in sets, but none dated earlier than 1971. The 1970 5p is a common coin, yours may be very worn, or could be mis-struck, in which case please post pictures.

That looks great, Numidan! The only thing that sprung to mind was how strike weakness could be factored into the equation? Superb idea though, which for the main part could work! At the end of the day a grade's a grade! Bag marks, edge knocks, etc, only affect appeal, and consequently value! Would be a very good start to get the grade right! I'm still trying to work out what the diagrams are of I'm assuming of something that someone could use in grading terms. -5 being good and -50 poor etc. I thought Derek Riley brought out a book for such requirements? Grading is always going to be subjective, no matter how we all think, we've seen it so MANNNNNNY times on this forum where we as experienced collectors do not agree, so we should basically pass that subject by and work on the rest. The diagram (section of king George V's crown on Canadian coins) was presented to prove a point, there maybe other ways to grading. It was not there to teach someone how it works, so do not assume, it is a bit more complex than that. If your method works, good for you, I respect that, but it did not work for me and I am guessing, it is not working for many others since forums are full of buyers complaining about the grade of their new purchases. How many of you, picked up a coin in your collection that you had previously graded, and wondered why you attributed that grade and changed it? That is objectivity at its best. Believe me, next time you will take the same coin, you will change its grade ... again. I was fed up always second guessing the grade. After searching the internet for Mr. Riley's book and I found an excerpt of it. It looks like a great reference book but it uses the same old methodology. People have to guess what grade their coins are, based on pictures. But the things I do liked about this book, pictures are clear and the author did not use a one size fits all philosophy. Thank you, Azda. I do agree with you that we should basically pass that subject, I am satisfied with my grading skills and do not need to prove anything to anyone. Your diagram appraoch is certainly different, and I'm sure useful especially with particular features on particular coins. But I'm surprised by your verdict on Derek's book? Far from being the ''same old methodology" it's a radical new approach using photos of all the major UK design types in various states of preservation - just the thing for a beginner, I would have thought. I'm unsure why you think it's lacking? It takes the guesswork OUT of grading, especially for beginners. Also, you say your diagram approach is to measure "die wear", but surely we are talking coin wear here, not die wear? Die wear is a more subtle thing and shows itself in the quality of the strike, but has to be judged more by the experienced eye, or a helpful dealer.

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices. Excellent commonsense, Rob. Or a way to repay the student loan!

1877 Victoria penny possible reverse-j freeman small date 0.66mm between 77 . narrow lighthouse and narrow neck. Wide date penny's have much smaller lighthouse and neck. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/webcatalogue/137/L1730r.jpg What lighthouse?? Neck, what neck? DEFINITELY Reverse J - the commonest one for 1877 As for his link, ERROR 403 Forbidden

LOL me too. I think the majority of us here fall into the 'middle' category, and are the ones who apparently need to worry most, unless we love our coins so much that loss of value is of no concern.

Rob has given some good advice. My own take on it is similar - don't buy from the Royal Mint as their special issues are vastly overpriced, aimed purely at making a profit for themselves. But if you are interested in sovereigns, there are some good 20th Century issues you can pick up from dealers at little more than bullion value. They won't be short-term investments (gold is very high, you'll be buying near the top of the market), but if you have an interest in them, and keep them, they will gradually appreciate in value as well as giving you pleasure in owning them. If you begin your investment with the latest edition of Spink's "Coins of England" (it comes out annually), you will get an idea of the values of sovereigns for every reign. Even many Victorian sovs, if not in the top grades, can be got for near bullion value.

1. YOUR FULL NAME.......................................David Cameron 2. YOUR AGE....................................................40 ish 3. YOUR OCCUPATION...................................Wanker 4. YOUR ADDRESS..........................................10 Downing street, London 5. YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE NUMBER.......Can't say These 2 would go hand in hand eh, both trying to rip everyone off, Cameron is doing a better job though

It's unique! How many coins feature those alluring folds and creases?

I think 2. is a problem area, the way you've presented it. In terms of the consequences (i.e. whether mistake or not) then it ranks only below #4, in other words it could have a catastrophic effect for a buyer. However, in terms of actual intent, you'd have to place it at #1 as it is the only genuine mistake among them. So I'd have to ask - are you listing those in order of criminal intent, or are you listing them in order of their consequences on a buyer?

What's the coin? I can't see a possible 9/8 if it was the first two digits of the date, but if it was the last two digits, e.g. 1819/18 or 1919/18, I could certainly see it as an overdate. Ah, now I've posted, I see in your quoted reply not a thumbnail, but a filename 1919over8.jpg. So we're talking 3d here, right?

Yes, but opening in which direction? Too far South. The Antonine Wall would be a better bet Where you will be stood against with blindfold come the revolution There once was an angry young Scot Who said "You are gonna be shot" He took a wee dram That he found in his pram And his aim went completely to pot

Yes, but opening in which direction? Too far South. The Antonine Wall would be a better bet

No, they are two separate sellers, the first one allegedly in Paris, the second in Ireland. It's the unexpected abundance on ebay of coins that book above £2K in VF that made me sit up and look harder. For a smaller denomination, that is a large number. Without following the thread back, just I case there's any link, the Paris groat was bought from an Irish seller? Is "Rob" any relation to our own esteemed Rob?

Not me! Just thinking if he had gone to the right of the Lighthouse, it would have been rarer still LOL.. I was just going to say the same thing.... Great minds and all that.... Only a handful known of those..... Only one, surely? There was one reported that made me aware of it, and I currently own one, and know of one other... so that would make at least 3.... I was thinking more in terms of the "apsolutely mint state" bun halfpenny. Yes, that's what I thought you meant too!!

Not me! Just thinking if he had gone to the right of the Lighthouse, it would have been rarer still 2 bids now - all the way up to £1.75! Not bad for an "apsolutely mint state" bun halfpenny

Baldwin77 thanks to Google Thanks! Can you trust the local dealer - sure he's not putting you off on his own account?

Very interesting. And Myth 6 is of great interest too, to anyone who's owned a decimal proof set - sealed into their plastic coffins, a lot of those coins tone, and tone badly (I call as witness, the 1973 set..).

Interestingly there are NO bids on those three items. And one is only 20 minutes from ending.

...and a taxi ride home, and still change from sixpence

Do you think we could have a link please guys?

I just had a close look under the loupe, Peck, and you are, to a certain extent, right. Though not as much right as the photos I have posted here might suggest, I can see what you mean. Perhaps the slabber was eating a particularly flaky pasty, or rolling a cigarette with particularly old tobacco, at the time it was sealed. Phew, my confidence in them is restored! Or drinking acorn coffee!

Oh well, look on the bright side - at least it's not an 1869 or 1871. The 1885 is quite easily upgraded.