1949threepence

With reverse F there is a rock formation coming up from the area just above where the W of LCW would be - except the wear on this coin prevents a confirmation, one way or the other. Also, the sea to the left of the lighthouse distinctly tails off and doesn't reach the linear circle, but not quite like the one above. So Bob, I agree with Jon, my guess would be a 4 + D Freeman 22. Interesting metal runs though. Britannia looks like she's sprouting another head.

We will never know for sure, but it does seem more probable than not, that they didn't circulate. Certainly not widely. Maybe a very few did somehow enter circulation, and became a bit like the 1986 £2 coin prior to 1997. You very occasionally got one in your change, as I remember (although you never do now)

It's not a facility I ever use, but have just tried it for the first time, and it gives exactly the same result for both "expanded" and "condensed". I can also click "load more activity", which is shown below the last entry, to get more.

I imagine most shopkeepers would have said something like you said above, or, "aren't these collector's pieces?", and not accepted them on the ground that they wouldn't have been able to give them back as change to other customers.

There's a 1934 example in this link which is GF/NVF - looks circulated. It's the second one sold on 5.12.16. Notwithstanding the scarcity, and considering the price they sell for, there certainly appears to be no shortage in the supply for sale over the years.

Have you managed to get one of them? Crikey, some people have all the luck

Yes, sorry Fred, as Jerry says, I thought you meant British Penny 1860 beaded border, which you did but in the sense of Gouby's BB reference.

Maybe a better way of putting it would be:- "If this coin proves not be genuine as advertised, we guarantee to refund the purchase price if returned within 10 years from the date of sale, with receipt, and convincing evidence to support the assertion" Bit wordier, but infinitely more logical.

As Bob says, yes, definitely. It's a F6.

Some great pointers from Terry though, which reduce the reliance on judging whether the 1 is over a tooth, as the only determinant of whether the 1909 is a 169 or not.

Indeed so. A lot of the teeth have worn away, as they have on many 1909 pennies. That may explain why so few 169's have ever come to light, even taking into account the estimated very low mintage.

I'm not sure to be honest. They're very tricky, as even when the "1" appears to be over a tooth, it can actually be over a gap. Very easy to be fooled. I do know there are distinctly fewer border teeth on a 169. Here's a definite example I copied from LCA:-

I've had them vanish as well. Very odd and somewhat inexplicable. I don't take too much notice of what the media say about coins. It's obvious they don't really know their ACAS from their Nalgo. But I thought I would post the link for its amusement qualities.

If I ever come to sell, I'm pretty sure I will lose money. No way will I get back the full amount I paid in real terms, allowing for any intervening inflation. Maybe two thirds if I'm lucky. But that would be good enough for me as I will have held them in the meantime and got a great deal of genuine fulfillment and satisfaction from doing so. I don't think pennies will ever get down to give away prices. Too much interest in them, including amongst young collectors on the facebook groups. Plus, of course, those very few Edward VIII threepences.

buckscoins includes this in his blurb:- The only possible logic behind this statement is that if, 10 years after purchase, you discover that the coin you bought from him is a fake, you're not entitled to your money back. Or is he just being inane by suggesting that a genuine coin could suddenly turn fake after 10 years? I dunno, maybe I'm just too critical of stupidity these days.

Well the old Kew Gardens 50p still continues to attract media attention. Apparently the scarcest coin ever to be circulated !!! link

They played "I'm the urban spaceman" on local radio this morning, as a tribute to Neil Innes. What a great song. Love that bit at the end - #here comes the twist, I don't exist". Pure magic.

Probably best to message @Chris Perkins. Give him the details and I'm sure he'll sort it.

Such things are wholly subjective, as you say, and would be almost impossible to quantify as opinions vary from person to person. All TPG's can do is grade according to a chart. It's up to individual vendors to point out eye appeal, quality of strike etc. Then for buyers to decide what appeals to them personally.

Absolutely. There are some appallingly poor strikes - for example many of the WW1 George V pennies. An UNC example, can still justly be referred to as UNC, or "practically as struck". But in such cases an EF (or even GVF) coin with a good strike (ie complete breast plate and decent hair detail), is going to be far more desirable than an UNC coin with 100% lustre, but no sign of a breastplate, and a slaphead King (for want of a better expression).

Absolutely - it is totally scientific in its approach. It's also great for pennies as it concentrates on them. I do agree that sometimes an EF coin with residual lustre, no marks and even toning, can look better than a nominally UNC example with uneven toning and marks. But that is actually separate from degrees of actual wear, which is what grading is all about. Derek is a member on here @Red Riley, but hasn't posted for some time.

Yes, it's a great book.

Gouby does have his own way of grading coins, which doesn't fundamentally alter normal grading principles, but adds to it in terms of splitting grades, especially at the UNC level. Fred, do you own a copy of Gouby's book, 'The British Bronze Penny"? He explains the distinctions very well in there, at pages 105 to 107 .

I'm not sure there's any dispute between Freeman and Gouby when it comes to grading. Freeman doesn't talk much about coin grades. There may be some slight disparity when it comes to rarity.

Especially at the James Watt factory. They were way behind contract and the RM was forced to sub contract some limited work to the Heaton mint. Maybe they should have used them from the start as they were much more efficient.