Rob

It's possible the Mint was trying to anticipate demand. Before the mid-90s there wasn't the annual flood of commemoratives that we now find familiar. You had the new £2 coins in 86, 89, 94 95 & 96 and the occasional crown up to 1990, together with the revaluation of that item from %/- to £5. Once they became £5 they were simultaneously issued on an annual basis. In the case of the Sovereign, there weren't many collectors of modern RM output in the 1980s, so it is quite possible that none were produced because they didn't think they would sell. Proofs are much easier to sell to the general populace than a dull currency piece. As the sovereign wasn't a currency piece despite its nominal face value, any bullion issued would be based on perceived demand for storing gold. I think it is necessary to cast minds back 30 years when the public's collecting habits were vastly different to today.

Yes, some of those topics do sound quite captivating. Moreover, having guest speakers is definitely a good thing. Of course, Manchester, being a big City, will have more members, and be able to attract notable speakers. I live in a medium sized town, and the available pool of interested parties will be that bit lower. Unfortunately. The size of the city is not important. Our club has just over a dozen members. The Lancs and Cheshire has fewer. Most guest speakers are persuaded on the back of individual contacts. Most people who visit to talk are on good terms with one or more members. So for example, the talk about William the Lion required someone from our club to reciprocate. I was therefore volunteered to give a talk at the Uni in February for the Lancs and Cheshire. It helps if the constituent members are part of the BNS and attend conferences and the like. This enables like minded people to help each other. We also meet in a pub. The Nursery in Heaton Moor which does Hydes beers.

No, the South Manchester. Reading is Derek's stomping ground.

It's no bad thing to be introduced to other areas of interest. This year our talks are as follows: Designs on Decimal Coinage of Napoleon I Wild Men & Running Horses - Our German Heritage Heaven blesses George's throne Times and Coins of William the Lion The Congleton Hoard Coinage of the first two Georges Viking Coins of York In the past we have had Graham Dyer talking about Victorian milled coins, Joe Bispham on Edward VI base shillings, Lee Toone on Romano-British, I've given talks on the Weyl Patterns and Charles I Civil War coinage, Edward I/II pennies, plus there have been many more talks on equally diverse topics. It's good to get away from your usual hunting ground as it makes you ask questions on subjects that you would ignore in normal circumstances.

The Midland is tomorrow at the Motorcycle Museum if you want to visit a fair. Doors open at 10 o'clock.

Your choice of books should reflect the area you have chosen. If you have already decided that varieties are an area you wish to pursue, then ESC is a perfectly relevant tome. Davies is another that you should have if going down this route. All references have their strengths and weaknesses. I think that the current ESC has not gone as far as it should have, because there are relatively few additional entries to supplement what was there before. Yes the numbering got a bit out of hand with continually appended suffixes which the renumbering will cure for the time being, but that will apply to any reference which immediately becomes outdated the day it goes to print. If you are just going to concentrate on a date run, then CCGB will be adequate. However, you must bear in mind that shillings go back to Henry VII and the earlier coins will not be covered in CCGB. Derek's grading book is a better place to start than an auction, dealer or eBay. Although it is limited in date range, it is more than good enough for anyone starting out. Personally, I think you would be better off going to a few coin fairs and handling the coins before bidding on auction lots. It's very easy to get carried away and pay too much, whereas a coin fair means that you can go from table to table and see what is best for you. Dealers, almost without exception will take things back if you are not happy, which gives some reassurance, though remember that every dealer is trying to make their coins as appealing as possible, whilst extracting the highest price they can. There is no problem starting at the cheap end, though you are unlikely to find many bargains when a fully priced item is only a few pounds. You are right not to want to upgrade in the future, which comes back to knowing what you are buying in the first place. By all means buy a range of items. You will inevitably change your preferences as your collection develops.

BNJ 1985. You can download it from the BNS site, or if you want the book, I have one available but it isn't listed on the site. £15 all in. PM me if you want it.

It looks like there was an obverse mark before it was worn. If so, by extension it can't be a bust 2 -/Arrow. Joe's article on this issue also states that all bust 2 coins seen are from the same obverse die. This is a different die and so, despite the lack of detail, all the indication are that it is highly unlikely given it is very rare. It isn't impossible that a bust 2 could appear on a different die, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'd go with that.

You want The Galata guide to the Pennies of Edward I/II and the coins of the mint of Berwick-upon Tweed by Paul & Bente Withers. ISBN 0-9543162-5-8. This is their home page. http://www.galata.co.uk/default.asp You will find it by scrolling through the Books section - £25. There are others, but this is arguably the best. Paul & Bente are very helpful

Welcome to the forum. When you say Edwardian pennies, I assume you mean medieval rather than Ed.VII?

Condolences to you and your daughters.

The latter.

I'd say 3g.

Just collect what appeals. Your taste will change over time. The resulting dilemma about what to keep and what to get rid of is only a variation on the angst created when you decide to collect a series, but then find that you can't afford to finish this either. Unless you choose a narrow field, one way or the other you will probably hit a brick wall. Happy collecting.

I thought the Adams was well struck. Haven't looked at others since then as it isn't a must have piece. In the unlikely event of me having a spare £5K with nowhere to spend it, I might revisit the 60/59

What do you have and what were you expecting? The polished die coins have a reflective field, but don't have a frosted bust as you might find on a proof.

Coming second on that one with a bid of £1500 still makes me wonder why I didn't bid a bit higher. It seems very cheap with hindsight, but then the world was looking quite rosy at the time, prices for coins were edging up slowly, everyone was making money and there wasn't a financial crisis on the horizon. Go forward 5 or 6 years and the price of a 60/59 to the collector had doubled, whilst half the banking industry was spending its spare cash on changes of corporate underwear. Go forward another 5 or 6 years and the price has trebled from 2003, all paid for by government QE.

The problem of young collectors is not new. Whilst it has always been possible for young people to collect from change, it is, and always has been a totally different matter to expect them to shell out many tens or more of pounds on a coin. People who only collect from change don't need a society and young people tend not to have the financial liquidity required to form a quality collection. Coin collecting has traditionally been pursued by middle aged people or older. Forums and clubs can live side by side. The only members of this forum in the South Manchester are me and Geoff T. Davidrj was, but his membership has lapsed. With so little crossover, I don't think that one meeting place will replace the other. Every member of the South Manchester is on the web, so this clearly hasn't stopped them going to meetings. Anyway, it is good to compare notes and see what people have bought.

We have 2 in Manchester, the Lancs and Cheshire which meets at the university and the South Manchester which meets in the far superior surroundings of the Nursery in Heaton Moor. (Hyde' beers ). I am a member of the South Manchester. We have a core membership of around a dozen who attend nearly all meetings, with a few more making intermittent apperances. For all the talk about them being in decline, our membership has stayed nearly constant, varying only by +/-1 member per annum from one to the next. It probably helps that there are another 3 or 4 groups within an hour's drive, so it is reasonably easy to get a guest speaker to talk about a field that is not normal for the regulars. These operate on a reciprocal basis. There is also an inter-county quiz covering Lancashire and Cheshire. We also have guest speakers coming from further afield, with former RM curator Graham Dyer talking about milled coins, Joe Bispham on Edward VI shillings and Lee Toone talking about Roman to name but three who have given talks. It is clear that they are far less popular than fifty years ago, but that is just a reflection of modern society with its marketing of hobbies and pastimes, far more numerous today compared to the DIY era of post-war Britain. It is unlikely the internet will kill off societies, as even for insular old gits like me it provides an excuse to get out and talk face to face about coins with similar minded people.

yes there is

I think that they were described correctly as I recall, or at least the ones that I looked at. Somewhat ironically, the one that I am uncertain about is ex both Magnay and Adams, and was described as a 3D in both sales. It is not possible to establish the state of the rust spots from the catalogues. There is never a better option than to check in hand. Pricing is generally based on metal type for most patterns. Copper and base metals are the cheapest, silver is more expensive and gold the most expensive. There is no rule, but it is quite obvious that there is a ballpark figure which encompasses most sales of a specific type. Silver pieces are regularly 3 or 4 times the price of a copper analogue. The rarity numbers are a red herring given they are rarely the result of a comprehensive survey, and in any case would typically only look within the country. I don't know why they are published, as you could do just as well drawing lots. In the case of the Moore patterns you have the numbers quoted by Shorthouse, which would imply a similar number (9) of each piece listed. Some of the pieces in the market are at odds with the statement attested by Shorthouse, but having seen gilt restrikes, I have to say that the surfaces of the P2115 listed above did not obviously suggest post-mint gilding.

Certainly don't have any references to sales of these four. All three bronze denominations exist, so it seems a little strange that the other silvers weren't struck. I wouldn't be surprised if a set turned up given the existence of 1928 and 1930 proofs.

Lots of things are misdescribed and the mistake inevitably perpetuated because many collectors have blind faith in the literature and don't question inconsistencies. As always, it pays to know what you are buying, because when the time comes to sell you can rest assured that someone will point out the incorrect listing if wrongly described as a rare variety (but are usually more reticent when a rare type is catalogued as a common one) . Buyer beware applies to each and every purchase. It doesn't matter whether the mis-attribution is intentional or not, just that one day the owner is likely to meet up with someone knowledgable. It could be very expensive. For anyone interested in these patterns, a copy of the Magnay or Adams sale is a useful reference. Both collections had large numbers of them. All three of the above images were from the Adams collection.

Yes, I think those are right. There are small spots on the base of the neck only on the last, but clear cheek spots on no.3