Sylvester

I was looking through news reports trying to find evidence of this, to prove I hadn't mis-remembered it. When I stumbled upon this in the mirror: Check out the photo they used for the 2016 "trial coins", it's very clear that the milling on that one is on the left. http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/rare-1-coins-worth-250-10112175

Got a pair of 2017s in the past day or two. I've checked approx 25 £1 coins, all but one have smooth to the left. I would have thought, as an earlier poster mentionned that the edges were random depending upon which way the blank landed in between the dies, like the old £1 coins. However, surely mathematical law of averages would suggest a more even 50/50 kind of distribution between plain to the left or to the right. But from preliminary reports here it seems very skewed in one direction, which suggests it's more intentional. Maybe you're onto something there, who knows? My first thoughts on the matter would be to ask, what type do the BU sets have? It has been known for the BU sets to have one die variety of coin and the circulation strikes to be of a different type. All very early days at the moment though. Just out of interest, are they all magnetic? I read somewhere that the centres are nickel plated steel. Although the mint have been known in the past to have differing compositions, thinking of 1998 or 1999 2p coins here (I forget which date), I suspect it unlikely that any have cupro-nickel centres, but with a massive mintage such as a recoinage strange things can happen and often don't always come to light until years afterwards. Especially thinking that the 2016s were supposedly for the vending machine industry to check their equipment and then were supposed to be handed back (according to some accounts I read in the news shortly after their introduction). Maybe the prototypes are the ones with the different edges? Dunno.

Anyone seen any 2017 dated £1 coins yet? I've encounted only about half a dozen new £1 coins and they've all been 2016s. Haven't checked the micro lettering, I doubt if I'll be able to read it anyway!

If that petition (or the ardent remain MPs that are hoping to initiate a similar 2nd referendum drive within Parliament) come to any fruition then I'm afraid I've lost all faith in this country's democracy. The problem with the establishment and the EU in general in my opinion is that it has a very closed way of thinking, 'think correctly, as we do, or your views are erronous and thus not valid' and then they resort to dirty tactics such as throwing out labels of derision; 'racist', 'sexist' or 'homophobic' or whatever. The EU really comes across as an Orwellian superstate in the making, it's scary how they speak for you and try to change your mind and way of thinking, using every tool at their disposal, including linguistic changes. I feel an enormous sense of relief that Leave won, but also trepidation that somehow the remain camp will try to alter, delay, stall and try and win the 52% of voters around to their way of thinking over the next two, three or four years. The quicker the cessation is set in motion the happier I will feel. There is the all too real danger of letting the momentum slow over the next two years and stall and then a remain coup attempt to force another referendum or some technical vote to halt the process before completion. I also feel a little annoyed about the comments in the media about older voters ruining the younger generations future. In actual fact I would consider myself a younger voter and I certainly think it a move in the right direction not the ruining of my and subsequent generations futures. It was a strike for democracy, the right to vote for the MPs directly and not have them overruled by some foreign bureaucrat who you never could have voted for even if you had wanted to. I also feel that finally I have had the chance to vote on this issue, I wasn't born in 1975 when the last referendum was held, so it was finally nice to have my say on an issue that has been a core issue for me for the past twenty years.

I really hope Corbyn wins the Labour Party leadership campaign. From my point of view the whole point of the Labour party was to be a socialist, working man's party. Labour ceased to have any relevance when they dropped the article in their manifesto that stated 'we are a socialist party', and that was sometime in about 1993/4. New Labour and all it stood for was practically New Tory in all but name. No one really wants two parties with the same political stance arguing over irrelevant nuances, this just makes politics stagnant, boring and disllusions the voters. The old addage 'they all urinate in the same pot' kind of holds true. I should make it clear that I am not a socialist and I've never voted Labour, but I think if they are to have any relevance in the future they have to be different to what the Conservatives are offering. If they can't actually have different policies then they are totally irrelevant as a political force, just like the Liberal Democrats have become.

I actually really like the William IV series, the William IV portrait is also another (often overlooked) Wyon creation.

Or Edward I for that matter!

It depends on the criteria I suppose. If you consider the differing overseas varieties (like Canada), or are taking all the commem portraits into consideration as well then probably. With regards to the UK regular issues only - The two monarchs now tie. Queen Victoria Regular issues Young Head 1838-1887 Gothic/Godless Head 1847-1887 Bun Head 1860-1895 Jubilee Head 1887-1893 Old Head 1893-1901 Elizabeth II Regular issues Gillick Head 1953-1970 Machin Head 1968-1984 Maklouf Head 1985-1997 Broadley Head 1998-2015 Clarke Head 2015-

This is where decimal coins really kind of come 'alive' so to speak. First though (a slight aside) - The main disillusion for collecting decimal for me is basically I don't really see the point. Every year the mint releases large numbers of BU sets (and other commemorative sets where the coins are included in another form), but in a nutshell the 'rare'/'scarce' mintages aren't really very rare or scarce and where's the fun in just buying the mint set? Think 1988 £1 coin, fairly rare in circulation, but I could buy a BU set tomorrow if I wanted to. But the real 'rare' and 'scarce' decimal coins are the minor varieties that slip into circulation barely noticed and stay there without another thought. Until someone wants to buy an UNC one and can't find it. I want a BU 'dot to dot' 1992 10p and 'Between/between' 1992 10p, but what's the chances of getting one now? Little to none. I'm also kicking myself a little because I'm not really aware of the new coin varieties, and I had a few 2007 £2 coins pulled from circulation all shiny and new back in 2007, but I paid them all in at the bank two weeks ago!

Actually that is quite acheivable for the most part (and for less too), certainly true for the Charles II - Elizabeth II time frame. So long as you don't want them all in EF of course. Even 'stumbling' blocks like James II can be overcome if you are prepared to buy 'Maundy' currency. Hammered coins are more of a mixed bag, some like Henry III, Edward I, Henry VI and Elizabeth I may be relatively easy. Although not quite sure how you sort out the Anglo-Saxon monarchs and the tricker medieval monarchs like William II, Henry I, Richard II & Henry IV. They will be harder.

I'm afraid I know all too well the price of cheap PVC plastic holders and album pages. From when I was about 10 until the age of 16 I used to save my pocket money and buy EF-UNC coins, mostly shillings, but also I assembled a few UNC year sets too. My father, kindly bought me a rather nice folder with album pages to store them in, (unfortunately what he didn't know, and neither did I - they contained PVC). After a few years I noticed the silver coins (particularly the George VI 50% silver) had a weird discoloured corrosion starting and well I lost practically the whole lot. I guess I learned the hard way.

I have to admit that even I have a soft spot for florins. Gothics are beautiful, Vicky Old Heads are cool, Edward VIIs are one of my favourites and I have fond memories of the George VI ones. I miss seeing them in change. Oh and welcome.

It could have been better. I personally like the old 50p design, that is probably my favourite Britannia design (although the Edward VII florins were quite something).

It's nice to be back once more.

I actually quite like the new one, so I voted for that. The Gillick, I have fond memories of, but the relief - or rather definition - was always quite poor and so I just couldn't vote for it. The Machin, I do like, simply because it shows more than just the head, but was it much of a likeness of the Queen back in 1965 when it was first used? The Maklouf, my least favourite, it looked younger than the Queen did back in 1985. Fairly utilitarian and bland portrait. The Rank Broadley was a vast improvement as it actually looked like the Queen and up until this new one was probably the most lifelike of any of the Queen's previous portraits.

With regards to the 1758 shillings and sixpences being available in some quantities it's because they were struck for a number of years, into the early part of George IIIs reign. I suspect even at this point though silver had been fairly scarce for a while. The larger silver coins had dried up earlier in the 1750s, I have read articles in the past that stated that even the great silver recoinage of 1696-8 period was not successful and that silver shortages were still somewhat problematic, even after weeding out the substandard hammered remnants - although not to the extent of George III's reign. I don't think much silver was coined (at least smaller silver - shillings & sixpences) in James II or William and Mary's reign - halfcrowns are more prominent. The basic problem being that the silver coin face values were undervalued - British silver coins were worth more melted down on the continent. The inverse is true of gold though, Britain had a plentiful supply of gold right through from Charles II to the Napoleonic period.

Youngster. N00b. ZX81? Hah! Some of us remember the ZX80... When I was a lad, we had quills.

I don't think it's quite 11 years yet, but it can't be that far off, November I think. Also Jon and William iirc. I often wonder what happened to all those youngsters, they were aged in the 10-15 age range back then, they'll all be in their early to mid-20s now! Probably at uni or got families now, my how the time has flown by. Scary thought! I'm glad to be back, it's been a while. Chris' got me working on a little project, so hopefully I'll be nipping in and out of the forum for a while. How are you getting on anyway?

Congratulations! You've been a rock and a pillar. Here's to another ten years!

Ah but it's still different, because whilst it may have been rare it was still a possibility. For example in 1992 I saw a 1930s George V florin in circulation. So even though it was rare and only happened once in all those years, it did happen. The lady who worked at the local post office kept it. See that's not even a possibility now not with legal tender anyhow. The only thing you can get these days is predecimals used deceptively, such as farthings, halfpennies and shillings as 1p, 2p and 10p coins respectively, although that's seldom now. I remember it used to happen more frequently in the early 1990s. I can't remember the last time I got a predecimal in change (which I'd love to happen), or even an old 5p.

I think I didn't make my point very clear, what I meant was not that coins would be melted and thus unavailable for collectors to buy, collectors will always be able to buy decimal coins due to the huge mintages. What I meant was that they'd be nothing of great interest actually circulating (or say scarce circulating), say for you to hunt down and find in change. With this I very much agree with Tom, we have nothing compared to the US and Switzerland where you can pull coins 100+ years out of circulation (by that I mean coins that are circulating as legal tender as they were meant to). How many collectors on here collect coins from change? Probably less than buy coins I suspect. Collecting coins through buying and collecting coins through change are two completely different experiences, at least for me anyhow. It's a bit like going to an auction/antiques house vs going metal detecting. One you know you're going to get something decent, the other you might find nothing. It's the thrill of the chase. British coins just don't have that, and for us folks born in the decimal era, we've never really had the chance to enjoy that. Personally I'd love to go to Switzerland and spend many hours searching through change, that'd be cool. Actually the most fun I've had buying coins is searching through the junk boxes, that's fantastic, love it. Which probably surprises Chris considering the kinds of coins I have specialised in over the years.

Heck, I can't even get excited about it either, and I collect coins. I still find it hard to get even remotely interested in the 1970s bronzes, let alone the small 5p. The only vaguely interesting things about the modern coinage to me is the 1988 £1 coin (not rare really, but cool to find one in circulation) and the 10p die varieties, to me that's like hunting down a rare coin, lets face it none of the dates of current coins are actually rare, or likely to ever be, so it's got to rivet counting... Of course with the cupronickel 10p coins withdrawn, well that just leaves the 1988 £1 coin as the little ray of sunshine. I can't get excited about the commemorative coins because I despise commemoratives, talk about forced... 250 years of some other event or person's birth/death that we neither care about or even were aware of. Please save stuff like that for stamps. Production of coins for commerce really seems like a second priority, and I seen more coins with flaws in the last few years than ever in my 20 odd years of collecting.

All jesting aside, my impression is (and I may be wrong), that the 20p and 50p coins will be left in circulation (at this point in time) since they're still being minted in cupronickel. It's only the pre-2011 5p and 10p coins that are going to be weeded out. Obviously the pre-2008 designs are going to be the easiest to spot and they'll vanish first. Although even so I expect it'll take ten years or more before they are seldom seen, I mean how many billions or 1990 5ps or 1992 10p coins are there. Many of which I bet are sat in change bags / piggy banks waiting to be returned to circulation or dumped in at the bank. Maybe they'll get HSBC or similar bank on side to engineer their change depositing machines to automatically separate the cupronickel 5p/10p coins? Coinage of 2020, imagine... 1p & 2p coins only going back to 1992 (rarely any earlier) if they're still in circulation at all, who knows? The 5p & 10p coins only going back to 2011/2012 (rarely earlier), 20p & 50p coins, depends whether they switch composition between now and then. It looks like we'll never get another period where you can regularly pull coins 100 years + out of circulation. The failings of a fiat currency, me thinks.

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s! I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really? Yep, copper plated steel since 1992. I think he meant, why haven't they started collecting the bronze coins back in, and I did once ask the Royal Mint why they'd minted a whole load of bronze 2p back in c.1999, they weren't forthcoming with an answer. But I still get lots of bronze in change, lots of Machin head coins turn up, I had a whole pile full of them until a few months ago... seems strange how they haven't tried actively hunting them down like the are with the 5p and 10p coins, maybe they are doing it now, since they're going after the cupronickel.

What planet have you been living on scott? It's been steel since the early 1990s! I didn't know that! Not that I should, of course! Really? Yep, copper plated steel since 1992. Wow, makes me feel sorry for the future generations of collectors! Imagine the questions on post-decimal.com in 50 years time! "How exactly do you store a piece of steel"? "Can I dip it?" "My tuppence has developed a series of nasty orange bubbles, what can I do?" I already have that concern with my Huth double florin. Yes, I was just reading about it in a different thread! A lot of money for a 100+ year-old lump of iron (did you ever post images?), selling for significantly more than its silver brethren! Why did they strike some in iron, when others were struck in silver, etc. seems like a crude material for such an impressive pattern? Tin farthings and halfpennies from the Charles II, James II and William and Mary come to mind, much harder to find in decent condition without corrosion and the price for the tin coins is higher than the copper, on the whole.