SilverAge3

I guess another term for lamination error is delamination, though often i see people just say lamination solo, which isn't quite correct. My original post coin had more areas than i cropped to, it was just an easy to see example spot, and trimmed the pic size down adequately for the forum.

Thank you

Thank you

Can anyone explain what's going on under the lifted arm? Is this some lamination or annealing issue? I'm suspecting lamination flaw. I am having issues showing much more of the coin due to file limitation constraint.

On one hand i'm tempted to buy one of every one of these i find, to have to inspect in-hand. On the other hand, i feel like i'm encouraging and supporting this racket if i do. I'd also need to collect many fake US 'coins,' as i collect those, and fakes target that market more aggressively (as US coins are a predominant market), altho I focus on US stuff far, far less. Richard, i look forward to your analysis of them. Sadly these things will be a constant game of whack-a-mole, or as i said earlier, an arms race. We must be armed and aware of new specimens, and be critical of ways to spot them. Looking at Jack Young as guidance, i mentioned his facebook group, although he focuses on US and US Colonial coinage, he has really a great eye for spotting characteristics of the counterfeits. His column at coin week is eye opening, even if i'm not on FB any longer, so can't see his group there (he has started one on MyCollect, a collector's social media site i am on). His column: https://coinweek.com/1799-draped-bust-dollar-counterfeit-jack-youngs-fun-with-fakes/ On MyCollect the groups tracking counterfeits are: https://www.mycollect.com/groups/counterfeitcoins https://www.mycollect.com/groups/ebayfakes It is a tiny social media site, nowhere near the activity i imagine is on FB groups, sort of more like what surviving forums have become, in terms of engagement. Even if they focus on US-based counterfeits, i learn from them and try to apply their knowledge to my field of interest, though i have yards to go to be as shrewd in this capacity. Also, nothing to stop users from posting about non-US fakes there, that is perfectly fine to do.

Not slabbed, but you can look at aliexpress, alibaba, temu, wish, likely more places, to see British coins too. These will be sold out on ebay, facebook, wherever someone can pass them off. as this seller states: "My store all coins just pictures have the copy mark ,but when you receive the real coins no copy mark in your hands ,so please do not worry ,you can directly order,thanks " https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-Britain-penny.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.search.0 We should really be paying attention to the sources for ebay scammers, like this, and noting what is off with these copies, and help educate collectors. The counterfeits definitely were a factor in widespread adoption for TPG over here. It's an arms race against the counterfeiters. British coins being targeted msy play a role in increased slabbing there too. Another factor in adoption was throttling slimy sellers overgrading or plainly leaving out issues with coins, esp if done by mail order/online. The preservation of the coins is one aspect I do appreciate, though I have a love/hate relationship w/ slabbed coins.

Jack Young, who writes articles for coin week, apparently has a facebook group on counterfeit detection and investigation, "Dark Side" Counterfeits and Fakes Facebook watch group. I assume some of the fake slabs appear there with the raws, but I'm no longer on FB. Here's a listing on aliexpress. They photoshopped 'copy' on to photos, but it's obvious it's not on the coins/slabs. Many such pieces on these sites, both raw and slabbed. Some target high priced coins, others worth very little --fake junk silver dimes have been found in the wild, real ones worth roughly $2 each. It's crazy. Of course the UK has lots of fake £2 coins in circulation, it seems, too. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805989895039.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.13.3847Xa3eXa3elY&algo_pvid=94dd9e8a-2260-41a9-94e1-64617e695a58&algo_exp_id=94dd9e8a-2260-41a9-94e1-64617e695a58-6&pdp_npi=4%40dis!USD!14.18!0.99!!!101.47!7.07!%40210318e817085945258765160e3ce0!12000036139433804!sea!US!189893809!AB&curPageLogUid=pkQUzlX8srcb&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch|query_from%3A&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa  clues: This one the font is wrong on the label, layout on label is wrong. Logo looks too soft, tho scanned images do this, too. Big give away. Fonts often are a big clue, require comparing to others known to be legit (tho they change fonts, holders,labels, logos, holograms, many generations from each of them). Some use NGC type labels in PCGS-style holders. Some PCGS-style holders aren't molded to say PCGS in frame. Some don't have logos the correct color on labels, or holograms are off. Some will say things like "morgan $1" on years other than 1921 -- only year labels differentiate between morgan of peace $. it's late so I'm forgetting more tells I know I've seen. But sometimes they're really pretty good, too. Just like the 'coins' themselves. Some are really good. Needless to say, the fakes find their way to ebay, both raw and slabbed.

Now of course we have fake slabs too, courtesy of temu, ali, wish, etc. Some of them are far more difficult to spot than others. Sad that scammers muck everything up.

Hmmm. May need to inquire if seller will post to US. Got relisted, no buyers last time.

Anhydrous, or any grocery store ammonia? I'd think it better w/o water in it, esp w copper/bronze.

I have an 1892 & 94, but no 93 yet. Anyhow, this isn't on my 92 or 94. I'll try to share my 92

Oh, especially because w/ the high priced coins the grading price hinges on a percentage of retail price estimate, it's not just a flat fee. Gee, wonder if there's room for insincere grades, and 'missing' cleanings, etc?

I'd be interested in seeing it. 1871 is very tough, even in mid grades, heck even few in junk.

Agreed. Even if they try to argue it's excessive cabinet friction (ha), that's not within orbit of BU any longer. Personally I would like to know who the seller is, as all of my purchases are remote, there just isn't any local cache of coins I usually buy. I am in the states, and do buy from overseas, both in UK and elsewhere, but not always privy to which sellers on ebay or which dealer/auction sites are best avoided. But I get why you're not trying to put them on blast, all the same.

£2000 w a high estimate of 80. That really takes it for blowing past the high est in leaps. Must have been two bidders with deeeeep pockets sloggin it out for a top pop or something (assuming it's top pop).

I just made a thread on ngc screwing up the 1897 low tide designation, so badly that the only slabbed examples in ebay are both incorrectly attributed. this also isn't the only time I've seen incorrect 'beaded' or low/high tide on labels. Even more aggravating is it's an additional cost for variety designations. What a sick joke.

For now, but as stated by blakeyboy, I also still might easily have fallen for that. Stinks that the fakes are getting shrewd.

Yeah, tho still steep, at least the lower one is in orbit for the standard die

Of course 90% or more of all the 1897 HT listings are in deed not HT, I'm just irritated how NGC makes matters worse. I did see a seller recently at least state an 1860 was mislabelled by NGC as beaded border.

I know it's common for people (dealers, eBay sellers) to misattribute the tides on 1895, 1897, 1902, but I'm looking at the NGC slabbed offerings, and they often seem off. I'm not wrong am I, that these two 1897 labelled as High Tide aren't actually high tide? https://www.ebay.com/itm/186136288294 https://www.ebay.com/itm/232339243134 It rather muddies the waters more if every available slabbed "High Tide" isn't, (or Low Tide for 1902), and lends credence to every other seller thinking they also have the rarer tide. The damage NGC does is infuriating, doubly so as they're raking in so much, while throwing fuel in this fire. They need to work a bit on earning expertise credentials.

Wow nice. Those Workman collection pieces were amazing. Even with that ghosting, the rev has excellent detail.

Since you listed Heritage, some other houses here in the US with some British predecimal: Stephen Album Rare Coins (must request ability to bid in every auction, and set a total dollar limit) Stack's Bowers Great Collections - cheapest shipping options and premium by far ($5 min BP; 10% by echeck/ach, or 12.5% other methods -- compare to $20-29 min BP, 20% at the others... esp lower cost coins that min makes a huge difference). They also usu ship w/in 3 days of payment posting, vs upwards of 1-3 weeks for others.

As the OP called it, big foot Britannia

Good catch!

As title says, looking for other eyes to verify if I have a hollow neck 1911. edit: Actually, after looking at Richard's site, I don't think I do.