TomGoodheart

Hi and welcome Bob. You omitted to say what coins you're collecting! However .. assuming you are looking at pre-decimal coins, you could do worse than hunt out a copy of Derek's book Nons mentioned. Look in the banner for The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins: Modern Milled British Pre-Decimal Issues (1797 to 1970). Not sure about Cardiff but Lloyd Bennett is based in Monmouth an is a reputable dealer with some nice coins. However there may be little there for you until you feel more confident about spending larger sums I'm afraid. eBay? Can be hit or miss, again, if you know what you're doing then it's a huge showcase with everything from total cr*p to the most amazing coins. However there are many people who overgrade, post poor photographs and claim everything is rare (not me of course!) and so there are pitfalls too. However, you could always post links or pictures of coins that interest you here and people are always willing to give advice! There are people here with years of experience covering pretty much every type and denomination of British coinage (except pennies. Nobody here is interested in pennies) and you'd be hard pressed to find their combined expertise in an entire library of books .. So ask away! Other things to consider are .. buying from dealers via the internet opens up enormous possibilities. I've bought British coins from as far away as Australia and NZ as well as the US and within Europe. Use the internet as a reference .. when you decide you'd like a coin search for similar and see how condition and price of other sales compare with yours. Coin fairs. A way to see a range of coins, meet dealers (and often members from here).. And finally (for now) remember excessive rarity does not (sadly for me) equal excessive value. Almost all today's value is based on condition (/'eye appeal' for earlier coins where simple degree of wear is not always the final decider as to a coin's desirability). And there are fashions in coins, like anything else. What is today's hot may be tomorrow's not ...

And I think that's in essence the key here. Personal opinion. We are all being asked to decide on an issue when it is pretty much impossible to tell what the long term effects of staying or leaving will be. There will be waves in the short term either way. Eventually things will stabilise and Britain will survive depending on how we all do within the World economy, as happens at present. When it comes down to it I think it all boils down to how you feel about the power balance within Europe and whether you're more a nationalist (small n) or federalist I guess.

Bit of a contrarian view it appears, but I'm for in. I have no real problems with a federal Europe, generally feel that the freedom to travel, simplicity of getting a job and convenience of a single currency are good things, particularly for my daughter's generation who I'm sure see the world in different terms than us oldies. Imagine the hassle if we had to obtain visas and be anally probed biometrically recorded for each European country we might wish to visit as is now required for the US. Imagine the inconvenience of different purchase taxes/ vat whenever we buy something from a dealer or auction house in Spain or Germany. The loss of the convenience of low cost phone roaming, drawing your pension or receiving free-at-point-of-treatment medical care ... Add to that working time directives, maternity policies/ parental leave .. all covered by EU legislation and things that as an employee I am pleased to see in place. People talk of 'faceless bureaucrats', but who here could identify many of our UK senior Civil Servants if shown a photo? Our democratic system is based on bureaucracy so to say the EU should be different is daft. Sure, it may not be a perfect set-up, but then what is? I personally think it's better to be in and able to influence things than out and subject to policy changes but without a voice. Can I guarantee that if we left major companies would move to where it's more convenient to do business? That prices of goods on the high street would go up? That Britain would lose a degree of international influence? No. But those are things I fear. It's not perfect, but it ain't broke to my eyes and leaving won't 'fix' it ...

Very nice kal. Worth the wait!

I haven't any reference books with me right now but yes, I see a martlet mark too.

How far back did you want to go Matt? There are roughly three periods, from hammered (hand struck) coinage (- 1662), through early milled; use of mechanisation (rollers and presses) in the mid-1500s to the modern machine made milled coinage we have today (1816-) Some people probably don't worry so much about the hammered as it produces very different looking coins from the current ones. There are different books covering the different periods.. In the meantime have you seen this: http://www.predecimal.com/p1celtic It's a short overview of the history of British coinage written by Ken Elks. You might find it of interest?

They occasionally go for as little as £8 on eBay if you are prepared to wait a bit. Otherwise Lloyd has it listed at £18 (which I believe is new, if in stock): http://www.coinsofbritain.co.uk/pages/books/books-details.asp?ID=5

Only on here! (It's Richard)

LOL Two things to remember about the gold coins of Charles I. 1) As Rob touched upon , the earlier privy (mint) marks are generally commoner, almost the reverse of the situation with the silver coinage where the first few issues are scarcer (although quality control seems to have gone down as output of silver coinage from the Mint increased, making nice examples of some later marks much trickier to find in pleasing condition than would be expected from the mintages). And 2) before you buy it's worth checking out the size of the coin against a modern one. Gold was way out of most people's reach at the time and some of the coins, such as crowns are quite small by our standards. (Tiny by comparison to their silver counterparts). While they are nice, you don't want to buy a lovely looking example from online images only to have a nasty surprise as to how small it is when it arrives! 3) Hammered coinage has it's own quirks and challenges way beyond those struck using machinery. Almost no hammered coin is perfect and so compromises usually have to be made. But each collector will develop their own standards, views about which quirks they can and can't live with, what about a particular coin appeals or not and that takes time. There's always the temptation to rush in and buy something. In fact we all (probably) have to make a few mistakes to learn from on the way. But if you think of collecting as a long term, if not life-long hobby it might help a bit. And of course, people here are always happy to offer an opinion on a coin before you buy! Or even after

Many if not most dealers will welcome 'wants' lists from clients Wayne. However it'll come as no surprise that clients that regularly spend money will be remembered more quickly when that key coin turns up! Having said that, I've had some excellent help from some dealers (locating old sales lists etc) who I've not recently bought from. It's a business so keeping the customer is (usually!) a priority. So in theory your scheme could work. Some dealers even have a commission page on their website where they will list client's coins. It's certainly a safer step than going straight into trying to deal for yourself. Though a fair few dealers are, or have been, collectors too of course...

Mmm .. not sure if I'm quite getting the turnaround time here. For example, Alan Morris collected coins of Charles I for over a decade or more. A lot of them he bought from the dealer Lloyd Bennett. He had a good relationship with him so, years later when Alan decided to sell up he asked Lloyd to sell the bulk of his collection, which Lloyd did. But if you're thinking of a timeframe more like months between purchase and sale, then surely it would be just as easy for the dealer to hold onto the coins themselves and sell for a bit more than the original budget? Otherwise it sounds like quite a bit of paperwork/admin for the dealer to me. Unless he sells to the customer but doesn't actually send him the coins but immediately puts them up for sale on his website? In which case I guess so (for example the auction house Heritage allow you to buy coins then put them straight up for sale through their "Make Offer to Owner Option") That way the dealer gets the money, the seller can ask for coins to be returned if they decide not to sell or get a bit of profit. Win, win. BUT does require trust, particularly on the part of the customer!

I knew we could sway you from George V to the dark side sooner or later Wayne!

If you just want to see coins of Charles I then, as Paul says, Brooker (Coins of Charles I (1625 - 1649). ) is still a good reference, though black and white illustrations only. However it doesn't cover the post-Royal period. Besly's, Coins and Medals of the English Civil War is a smaller volume but gives more history. Both can be picked up second hand. The first for as low as £10-£12, the second might be trickier .. £15-£20. One of the members here (who is also a dealer) has an interest in the period and has written a few articles: http://www.mhcoins.co.uk/category/articles/ Of course, the British Numismatic Journal has numerous articles which can be viewed online here: http://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ.shtml You can link to a pdf of the Index of contents from that page. Pages 30-31 of the Index list Charles I related articles.

Not mine Weaver. I only collect shillings! Still for sale at £3000: http://www.amrcoins.com/coins-for-sale/HG-1280/ Auctions are probably the way to go for cost effectiveness. But you'd need a bit of knowledge first to decide how much to bid. That's why a reputable dealer doing the work for you can be worthwhile. Of course, some dealers will look out for coins for customers. Give them an idea of what you want and a budget and let them loose!

Ah, but wouldn't you really rather have something like this? Still 20 shillings worth. But miles away from a bit of bullion.

As a collector, the profit I've made is generally from spotting something rarer or in better condition than usual at a reasonable price. And then knowing another collector who might be interested helps! Although I also favour part exchange. If I want a coin from a dealer then sometimes they will be willing to offset some of the price in exchange for a coin I no longer want. Though of course, that doesn't always work! Generally coins I've tired of are lacking something so there's a risk they won't appeal to others either. Thing is, with the sort of coins I collect, coins in 'better than usual condition' don't turn up so often. And if they do it's worth paying a premium. But with more modern coins like GV onwards, I think it was Declan himself that reminded me, they were minted by the thousands, if not millions. Consequently there will be far more examples in better condition. This not only means that you ideally want a really nice example to ensure it keeps its value, but also that it's worth taking time and waiting until that nicer example turns up! In both cases it's key to have a good idea of what an 'average' example looks like, in order to spot the better than coins. Maybe that's the attraction of proof sets, in that they contain presentation grade coins that show all the artistry of the designer. Although personally, I like a coin to have some evidence that it's circulated or passed through people's hands. The history is part of the appeal and a 350 year old coin should look different from one struck today IMHO. .

Thanks. There's always a slight risk buying from photographs .. the 'worst' was a coin I bought from Stacks in the US which looked very different when it arrived. Fortunately I still liked it, but it was a bit of a surprise! Photos can hide a multitude of flaws, even quite unintentionally by being slightly out of focus (softening or blurring surface marks) or give an impression of toning that isn't true in 'normal' conditions.

Ah, no. Another auction that happened to pop up on a search. There were a couple of decent coins at DNW, but they went for decent prices! But yes. Any unsolds, no harm in asking. Some consigners will consider selling rather than getting coins back they are then stuck with.

Gold coins are obviously linked to the melt price of the metal. Hence common dates will never fly, but they will always be worth bullion. Bullion price however goes down as well as up. Rarer dates/ mints are like any other numismatic item. Subject to the market (number of collectors, sentiment, and what's in collecting 'fashion' (though gold seems to have remained reasonably popular over the years). But can be expensive at the offset so again, an area (talking about rarer gold here) that really requires knowledge before you spend any money IMHO. Oh, here's my "gamble" purchase ... I aim to post photos of the coin in-the-hand to compare with these when it arrives:

Interesting thread Weaver. Returning to the original topic, I kinda feel that unless you spend serious money or have a good eye and knowledge it' difficult to actually invest in coins. A £70 coin that puts on 50% over 10 years still becomes a just-over-£100 coin. Allowing for inflation that's probably not going to feel like much profit by then. To make investment type money I think you need to buy cheap and turn around quickly for a profit. Which is needless to say, not simple or everyone would be a coin dealer! It's taken me over five years to make money back on some coins and to learn to buy better coins that will hold their value. Largest loss? Nearly £180 on a coin bought on impulse and sold too soon. It would have taken a lot of good 'investment' to make that back had I been collecting for profit... A fair price for a fair coin is my principle. But to echo everyone else, a bit of a haggle is very rarely a bad idea. Just don't expect dealers to do much more than 10% on the majority of coins. Or that's my experience at least! An offer can also work elsewhere. I saw a coin in an auction listing, thought "that doesn't look too awful" then realised the auction had actually been that morning! Curious to see what it had fetched I checked the prices and there was none. So I sent an email asking if it had sold and making an offer quite a bit below lower estimate (though for a coin I'd not inspected in person I thought acceptable). Lo and behold I got quick reply saying the consigner was prepared to accept my offer! OK, a bit of a risk and I've yet to see what I've actually bought, but here's hoping ...

That's how started Benio. I found a book about shillings and.. well, I decided to collect shillings! .. Just a nice example of each major redesign of each reign. Not looking for minor varieties. I also picked up examples of shillings struck for Commonwealth countries out of interest. In the end I thinned it down and now only collect hammered (hand struck) shillings from one reign. That's because I not only got to like the look and history of hammered coins, but it was too expensive on my budget to buy all the milled (machine made) types too. Not suggesting you should do the same. Just an example of how I got going..

My first impression is that it is a modern replica. The design looks more as if it was struck using tools than from a single die to me. However, I've no real experience with the series so am happy to be corrected. I think a photo of the obverse might help clarify things.

Whereabouts in Scotland are you GL? Just that I know one of the members here who is also a dealer is based near Newcastle if you aren't too far North. If a collection is decent dealers will sometimes travel to take a look. Might be worth contacting him for a chat? John Stevenson (Argentum & Coins) You can send a message via this forum from his profile: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/profile/4546-argentumandcoins/ I've also bought from Scotmint in Ayr if you want another Scottish based dealer.. though I've not sold to him. Though I'd just restate that photos would help us establish whether we are talking auction house material or ebay..

Oh, that's' definitely an "Out, Out, Out!" Colin!