TomGoodheart

The next questions might be where it was bought. If from a dealer that usually gives some reassurance. And provenance too. Though I didn't find this particular coin during a short web search..

More Clive's or Rob's area Nick, but there's nothing about it that shrieks 'fake' to me ... looks nice.

In the 60's we went on holiday to Austria. While driving through Germany we parked up at a stop on the Autobahn, this large chap wandered over and inspected the GB plates on our car. He turned to my Dad and said "You were in war?" "I was in war" Reached over to pop the boot of the car next to ours to reveal a case of beer. "Now we friends" he went on. "We drink". And they did. That was the only time I remember the war being mentioned.

Returning the thread a bit to the EU vote, my most serious misgiving is that this is indeed a divided nation. But not so much the Scots and Northern Irish and the rest. More our elected politicians and the rest of us. If any MP thinks that the public will have more respect or trust in them now they are fooling themselves. When it's clear that (probably whatever the outcome of the vote was) we need stable, reliable leadership all we have is pettiness and in-fighting. Both from the Tories with Michael "I woke up early and decided to run for PM" Gove imagining that polishing off his illustrious political career by stabbing his old friend BJ in the back would earn him Brownie points in the leadership race, and Labour with sulky MPs continuing to try to get rid of a leader who was elected with the largest (membership) mandate ever won by a party leader and whose presence appears to have more than doubled the membership of the party. Seriously. I didn't vote Leave, I don't like the result, but it is what it is. We now need to get to work sorting out the mess to the best advantage of our nation. And if our politicians can't or won't work towards that, perhaps we should look at deselecting and getting ones that will.

Welcome Damowain. As Rob say, Spink is a good generalist publication. Though you have to remember that books take time to compile and print and so prices are already dated by the time they hit the shelves, so they are only a guide really. You also have to remember that what a coin is 'worth' will vary depending on demand. A coin can sell for silly money if two people really want it, but conversely a really rare one can go for peanuts if few people collect that type and those that do already have an example. There aren't really all that many websites that offer prices as it would take a lot of time to keep them up to date and many sites are run by just once person. The most accurate price guide is perhaps to follow auction sales (coupled with some knowledge) but that's probably only something to worry about when you are looking for something very specific. And of course, while grade is key, nice or nasty toning, 'eye appeal' and other factors all come into play. Really there's no substitute for personal knowledge. And until you have that there are places like this forum. Most members will happily offer an opinion as to grade or reasonable price if you post a photo of a coin for discussion, so don't be afraid to ask. We're all learning here. Just some have been learning for a bit longer than others!

And no eBay fees here!

Looks pretty enough. If it were me I'd probably pop it on ebay for .. £20? Maybe even £25 with free postage thrown in. And see what happens ... Whether that's a fair price I have no idea. But if someone wants one, at least the buyer won't need to pay shipping from the US, will they?

Yeah, I'm not sure about 'exorcising the ghosts of an inglorious past', but I do think my vote was influenced by the ideals of community, 'greater good' and our having more than just a trading partnership with our neighbours. Perhaps unsurprising given I've always felt more European than British due to my parentage. Dad after all found a new home here, having had his life in Poland turned upside down a few days short of his 21st birthday and Mum was a Scot, though working in London when they met. Sure, I'm not unaware of its failings. But I admit to voting on the basis of (a romantic, perhaps) belief that the EU can be improved. And to improve it, better from within I reasoned. Interesting thread.

Interesting how Rob's views mirror part of Mark Mardell's piece for the BBC, which I've highlighted below: "As the BBC's first Europe editor, I spent a lot of time thinking about our tricky relationship. After all, in my previous incarnation as a political journalist based at Westminster I had seen how some politicians' profound distaste for the evolving project of the European Union had blown back into British politics with profound and startling consequences. I had watched as Margaret Thatcher's attitude towards the EU's nascent plans for a single currency, summed up by "no, no, no", had her own side bringing her down. It was the defenestration of a prime minister deeply beloved by most of her party. I had reported for Newsnight as John Major's government was harried and hamstrung by those who rebelled against the Maastricht treaty. Europe meant it could do nothing. Blair's government was much friendlier, with any tensions buried by his own project. Now Europe has claimed another scalp, that of a man who told his party to stop banging on about it. It will be the thing that David Cameron is remembered for - banging on about Europe, and losing the argument. Now I know the European Union is not Europe. But those who stress that are missing the point. No, it is not the same as European culture. No it is not a geographically exact expression. But there are only a couple of European countries who are "out", and firmly intend to stay out. All the others, or at least their leaders, want a share in this deeply political expression of a dream. By the end of my time based in Brussels I was convinced that I had understood the key difference. To many in the UK being part of the EU was a hard-headed economic relationship, about free markets, selling and buying stuff. It was a sort of second best, a consolation prize after the loss of empire, but not one that had a similar place in patriots' hearts. But for nearly all the other countries it was a refuge. It was a home they were constructing as a bulwark against history, against horror. Germany was fleeing its role in spreading death and destruction to every corner of the continent, fleeing its own political ambitions. France was running away from defeat and occupation, from humiliation and powerlessness. So were many other countries. Greece, Portugal and Spain found refuge - in an imagined future - from the real past of right-wing dictatorships. The countries of the East were replacing communist tyranny with a new attempt to create peace and democracy. The European Union, for all its bureaucracy, is a deeply romantic project, a desire to forge something new, something different. A new relationship binding nation states in a way that will exorcise forever the ghosts of the inglorious past. "

I could live with that ... in the meantime I'm going back to watching Fatboy Slim play at Glasto on the iplayer...

I think it's fine to cite democracy. However it seems pretty clear that some people voted with little understanding. You could say that happens in any political vote. But the issue of reducing immigration was one factor in some people's decision to vote to leave and Nigel Evans' claim of "some misunderstanding" about this throws into question whether those voters might have voted differently had they had more information. There's also the minor issue that the referendum has no legal standing whatsoever. The government appears to have omitted anything that would force them to act in a particular way when drafting the necessary paperwork. In fact, in retrospect, the whole thing seems badly drawn up, since setting a percentage of votes for it to be carried either way (as proposed in the new petition) would have silenced some critics. Yes, the petition (also) carries no legal power. But it might be difficult for the government to ignore it if the number of signatories reaches 4millon+ as that would represent over 10% of those voting. No small beer. So I can see some delays before anything significant happens. Yes, Cameron said he will invoke Article 50 .. but he's leaving. And as Remain supporters included MPs from all parties I believe we can expect some lively debate before anything at all happens. Particularly as there's no evidence that anyone in government made any real plans for what to do if the public voted as they did. It seems likely it was assumed 'common sense' would prevail and that would be an end to it. And then there's Scotland. And Northern Ireland. And to a lesser extent Gibraltar, London and Birmingham. All with a majority Remain vote. So it seems to me as if there is a rather large space. And for now, all we can do is watch it. Popcorn anyone?

Horrified as I am by the result I can't help but think that this is a good thing for democracy if it teaches people like this that voting is not just about protesting but has consequences; EU Referendum Man Voted For Leave And Is Now Regretting It Perhaps the 'Corbyn phenomenon' has led too many to think that all voting does is to let those in power know you aren't happy. With luck everyone will learn from the experience (including Cameron's successor) and more thought will go into the whole democratic process thing ... maybe.

The one Andy Bruce used to run? I think it went. Unless R Ingram incorporated it into his site as he was another of the main sellers. Last time I checked (some years ago) Andy was selling antique furniture...

I just think it's shit that my daughter's generation will have to deal with the fall-out of this when they didn't vote for it. The old fogeys swung it. HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain As for my view .. well, let's just say I'm unlikely to be buying any coins from overseas for a few months.

It's not even clear from the website if the Numismatic Circular is still going. As far as I know it ceased publication some time back, but anyone know for sure? Rob? I re-read the issues I have regularly. And equally regularly, wish I still had the option of buying some of the coins listed.

Last time I tried their website was unusable. Mind you that was about a year ago. But it was so bad I've just not bothered since then. I can view their offerings on sixbid, though the fact that they couldn't sort out something like a website doesn't recommend them to me as a buyer or seller ... .

I don't suppose it's much comfort to know we've all made mistakes in collecting Dave. I've bought coins that were overgraded, others that were cleaned and in one case when I came to sell one I made a huge loss ... yes, it hurts. And sometimes you don't know if the seller knew what they were selling wasn't worth the money or not. Honest people can still sell you duff goods believing them genuine themselves. I'm sure other members will have similar stories to tell. But I'm sure we've also got more confident as time has passed. And if uncertain about a coin, well, there are always people here who will give an opinion. Plus trustworthy sellers. It would be a terrible shame if you stopped collecting because of this, just as you find this forum and were finding it fun.

http://www.checkyourchange.co.uk/50p-coins-in-circulation/2009-fifty-pence-fake-kew/

The countermark looks recently struck to me. Very clean ...

While not my area at all, if someone suggested that this was a genuine chop marked coin that someone has (recently) added a pseudo-Georgian countermark to, I'd not disagree with them ... Countermark: duff. Coin and chops: possibly ok ... But as the 'value'/interest is in the countermark ... .

Bear in mind for the short term that something like Microsoft's standard Paint package will accept quite long names for images. I can fit most provenance information in which then provides me with a very useful photographic record of any coins that might interest me. A trawl of auction archives and similar sites has resulted in a personal reference of almost 1800 images I can refer to within seconds either on my laptop or via the cloud ... (I think I forgot to add that I also keep decent quality images of every coin I have for my records too!)

I've thought about the website idea myself Ian, but am both lazy and lacking in confidence to make a start yet! So currently I keep details on little paper tickets, stored with the coins (traditional!), I retain all the receipts for the coins I currently own and record details on two Excel spread sheets. Details are the usuals such as cost, where I got the coin and when and any provenance. One ("Listing") is arranged to tell me what the total cost of all the coins comes to. Not a perfect means of valuation, but it's a start, should I ever want such a thing. The other spread sheet ("Remaining") starts with the lump sum I used to start collecting and ends up with how much I have currently left available to spend. Both get updated whenever I buy or sell a coin or receive cash at Christmas or my birthday. Both are, for simplicity, arranged by Spink number and then the specialist Sharp number used for such coins. All very basic (and clearly a simple matter if you only have a small number of coins as I do). I used to keep occasional printouts of the spreadsheets, but now tend to rely on copies stored on various memory sticks etc... Ultimately, I feel I want something that's simple to maintain and tells me (or family) what they might need to know. A website would look nice, but what I have does the job for now.

Yes, a commem medal of some sort. Brass or gilt rather than gold I'd say. Unfortunately not an area I know anything about I'm afraid: Anyone else?

Hi and welcome Bob. You omitted to say what coins you're collecting! However .. assuming you are looking at pre-decimal coins, you could do worse than hunt out a copy of Derek's book Nons mentioned. Look in the banner for The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins: Modern Milled British Pre-Decimal Issues (1797 to 1970). Not sure about Cardiff but Lloyd Bennett is based in Monmouth an is a reputable dealer with some nice coins. However there may be little there for you until you feel more confident about spending larger sums I'm afraid. eBay? Can be hit or miss, again, if you know what you're doing then it's a huge showcase with everything from total cr*p to the most amazing coins. However there are many people who overgrade, post poor photographs and claim everything is rare (not me of course!) and so there are pitfalls too. However, you could always post links or pictures of coins that interest you here and people are always willing to give advice! There are people here with years of experience covering pretty much every type and denomination of British coinage (except pennies. Nobody here is interested in pennies) and you'd be hard pressed to find their combined expertise in an entire library of books .. So ask away! Other things to consider are .. buying from dealers via the internet opens up enormous possibilities. I've bought British coins from as far away as Australia and NZ as well as the US and within Europe. Use the internet as a reference .. when you decide you'd like a coin search for similar and see how condition and price of other sales compare with yours. Coin fairs. A way to see a range of coins, meet dealers (and often members from here).. And finally (for now) remember excessive rarity does not (sadly for me) equal excessive value. Almost all today's value is based on condition (/'eye appeal' for earlier coins where simple degree of wear is not always the final decider as to a coin's desirability). And there are fashions in coins, like anything else. What is today's hot may be tomorrow's not ...

And I think that's in essence the key here. Personal opinion. We are all being asked to decide on an issue when it is pretty much impossible to tell what the long term effects of staying or leaving will be. There will be waves in the short term either way. Eventually things will stabilise and Britain will survive depending on how we all do within the World economy, as happens at present. When it comes down to it I think it all boils down to how you feel about the power balance within Europe and whether you're more a nationalist (small n) or federalist I guess.