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I know I've said it before, but the ratio of rare to common specimens has narrowed steadily since decimalisation, but the value guides don't really reflect this. The rarities are still rare but the common dates have become scarcer over such a long time.

What I mean is - if it's the same smaller size as other toy coins, then it wouldn't have been the Mint at the Great Exh. but probably Moore (presumably Heatons didn't strike toy coins?)

Whilst the interest in collecting from change may fade away, the interest in rarities, especially nice ones, is likely to be subsumed into the general collector desire for quality rarities seen across all spheres. Otherwise, how do you explain the prices paid for hammered coins, none of which circulated in living memory. Their desirability stems from the history and all coins are part of that same history. Not all denominations have a large following, but one day their turn will come when relative rarities are fully appreciated. Take halfpennies. Much rarer than pennies in top grade because alongside farthings, they were the mainstay of the working class cash economy. That means a high grade example is always a good long term bet given they weren't normally set aside and collected per se. It is a common thread throughout history. Look at Roman sestertii as an example. These were the circulating base coinage of the Roman era, and again, not something the rich and famous would set aside. However, the Bolsena Hoard found in the late 19th century in northern Italy provides ample evidence that even 1700 years ago someone thought them collectable. As the hoard contained a large number of top grade sestertii spanning a few centuries, it beggars belief that they were collected from circulation. The hoard only makes sense as a collection. i.e. we are just the latest in a long history of people who collect from interest, rather than as an investment. As I wrote in my testimony to Cope part 2. We 'met' on ebay. He, as my regular nemesis, eventually asking if I was a copper collector. Silly and obvious really. When we had both bid over twice book on a lustrous 1718 halfpenny that came back in the sale as a 65RB, it was clear that we both appreciated the relative quality of the coin, and how infrequently they turn up. High grade modern pennies will also fall into that same collectable category once enough have been melted and are no longer readily available, and this might happen sooner than you think. In the past 20 years, I estimate that I have consigned somewhere near a ton of bronze to be melted of all denominations. Why? Because nobody wanted them, so you melt to free up cash. The odd rare piece will have gone through undetected, but the vast majority will have been worth scrap value. I am not alone in having done this. This will increase the relative abundance of the rarities over time. Every dog has its day, and as far as I can see, always will do so on a recurring basis.

I must admit I am disturbed with the reverse one irish symbol one Scottish and yet two English Did someone hate the Welsh?

oh matron ! Its the same size as the Moore gothic crowns

I was under the impression in recent years interest had spiked, not from my own experience but various things I have seen/read. I only buy unattributed coins so loss in the future i doubt will amount to much for me, but same for the collection will probably never amount to much waiting for coins that are never going to appear.

Same here, checking my mother's purse for pennies when she came home from work every night during the 1960's. It was good while it lasted but I'm now at the age when it's time to move them on. So those I've purchased since have not been a great investment but the fun was in the collecting. It's a shame today's youth are mostly into their phones.

Sadly, I think you're absolutely right. I imagine most penny collectors became interested during their school years in the sixties and are now in their twilight years (me included) and it seems that the interest in copper and bronze will fade away with them. I shall probably sell my collection next year and am resigned to losing money on many if not most of the coins.

No reserve......I figure these things will realise their current value. As I said in my OP, I may be wrong but I get the impression demand is not what it was 10 -20 years ago. Am I wrong?

It went for £640.

What size is it?

Interestingly, I bought a heavy 1967 penny (13.43 gm) at London Coins auction in September 2013 along with a couple of decimal errors for £95. Mint Errors (3) Penny 1967 struck on a thick flan and weighing 13.43 grammes EF, Decimal Two Pence 1978 uniface Obverse only NEF, Decimal Penny 1976 VF with raised unusual collar.

The problem with spurious Mint emissions is that a deliberate anomalous product commands a much higher price than a random blank picked up and thrown in the bucket for use. i.e. if you could prove it was a striking specifically tied to a certain mint action, such as trying out a regular mix on a different thickness blank, or a test for a new currency contract from a foreign country, you will do better than the unintended oddball. Wrong flans occur regularly, which is not surprising given the billions of blanks cut every year. Clearly even a hundred wrong'uns would be extremely rare, but in the context of mint operations would only amount to a rounding error if checked for weight. So to consider the above point, it is definitely not common, certainly excessively rare (in the context of a currency issue) and maybe even unique. The problem lies in documentation, because errors are by definition, not struck for the records.

I dont think these have been show by me, undated... the lower one look like it may have a cracked die, albeit not currency and only, model / toy coins...

There are more recent examples like the pobjoy mint £1 isle of man coins in the early 1980's at the ideal home exhibitions they had a special privy mark on them. It might be interesting to get a list of exibitors from the great exhibition , to be honest i cannot see the royal mint being there but the heaton mint or moore could have been . I am asuming the new model crown came after the much more common gothic example produced in 1848 or a little later

Did you set a reserve? It would be a shame to let it go for a fraction of the price it has previously made.. Surely it's not a common coin? Then again it's quite obscure in the sense you need to be looking for it and weighing 65's to find one.

Thanks chaps....yes, I saw it on the LCA website when researching the value and included that in my eBay listing. I honestly can't recall if it was I who obtained it from LCA as it is obviously the same one. It's nice in hand, quite obviously heavier. If I did pay that much for it I assume I will be lucky to get my money back. I may be wrong but get the impression there was much more interest back then.

I quickly checked a few of the obvious commonwealth countries I cant find a bronze coin that size and weight.

1 Penny 1965 Mint Error - Mis Strike, struck on a thicker heavy flan and weighing 12.11 grammes, A/UNC the obverse with traces of lustre, Sold £280

That would place it around the time of the Great Exhibition of 1851. Fascinating to speculate it may have been struck there to demonstrate minting machinery, just as the 1951 crown was struck at the Festival of Britain.

The 1900 is the best grade - edging towards EF. The 1891 is at least F but perhaps a bit better The 1853 has too little hair detail to rate F but getting there The others are scrap I'm afraid