Brand new to collecting

[Rob 3,002]

firstly I'm not here to debate, I'm purely telling people if they wish to make an income on the side of their full time job, or even go full time with this business, then this is a great business to go in to. Why would i be telling you, well I'm not the only person that is aware of it, just do a bit of research and you'll see whats happening in the world with silver. Its about getting real money in to hands of the everyday bloke on the street. Paper money is worthless, we can see this. The governments just keeps printing this trash and its bringing its value down. In 2006, a silver ounce could by you 4 gallons of fuel, today it can buy you double that. Try doing that with a tenner.

This whole business isn't about collecting coins on the whole. Thats a side thing. I give people the opportunity to get involved and make some money part time. If they don't want to make any, thats fine. It costs nothing to take a look at the business. We all work as a family, theres no competition, if i want to succeed my friends have to succeed so we all help each other. Its brilliant.

This is all marketing crap. If you really want to show the buying power of silver, why not use the 1980 $/£ adjusted figures? When the market peaked at $50.35 intra-day on 21st January 1980 up from its low of $4.50, then you can boast that it bought over 17 gallons of fuel. You might not want to tell the full story though, because it soon fell back to only buy 3 and a 1/2 gallons within a week or two. Or if you feel inclined, why not clarify the reasons why silver is going to increase in price by using examples such as this gleaned from wikipedia - quote

"In April 2007, Commitments of Traders Report revealed that four or fewer traders held 90% of all short silver futures contracts totalling 245 million troy ounces, which is equivalent to 140 days of production. According to Ted Butler, one of these banks with large silver shorts, JPMorgan Chase, is also the custodian of the SLV silver ETF. Some silver analysis have pointed to a potential conflict of interest, as close scrutiny of Comex documents reveals that ETF shares may be used to "cover" Comex physical metal deliveries. This led analysts to speculate that some stores of silver have multiple claims upon them. On 25 September 2008 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) relented and probed the silver market after persistent complaints of foul play.[22]

In April 2010, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs trader, went public with assertions of market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase and HSBC of the gold and silver markets, prompting a number of lawsuits.[23][24] In response to allegations of market manipulation from silver investors such as Max Keiser, Blythe Masters, Head of Global Commodities for JP Morgan, told CNBC in April 2012 "often when customers have metal stored in their facility, they hedge it through JP Morgan on a forward basis who in turn hedges itself in the commodity markets. If you see only the hedges and our activity in the futures market, but you aren’t aware of the underlying client position that we’re hedging then it would suggest inaccurately that we are running a large directional position."[25]"

So you see, the market is invariably controlled by a few players who may change over time, but all have the same ultimate intention which is to get suckers to jump on board and buy their already overpriced metal in order to make a profit. Ultimately it will be the 'me too' want to get rich quick type of person who will end up the poorer. I think you are on the way there.

If I have misread the situation and in fact you are operating a Ponzi scheme, I apologise for my stupidity in being unable to identify the type of scam involved.

[argentumandcoins 70]

firstly I'm not here to debate, I'm purely telling people if they wish to make an income on the side of their full time job, or even go full time with this business, then this is a great business to go in to. Why would i be telling you, well I'm not the only person that is aware of it, just do a bit of research and you'll see whats happening in the world with silver. Its about getting real money in to hands of the everyday bloke on the street. Paper money is worthless, we can see this. The governments just keeps printing this trash and its bringing its value down. In 2006, a silver ounce could by you 4 gallons of fuel, today it can buy you double that. Try doing that with a tenner.

This whole business isn't about collecting coins on the whole. Thats a side thing. I give people the opportunity to get involved and make some money part time. If they don't want to make any, thats fine. It costs nothing to take a look at the business. We all work as a family, theres no competition, if i want to succeed my friends have to succeed so we all help each other. Its brilliant.

This is all marketing crap. If you really want to show the buying power of silver, why not use the 1980 $/£ adjusted figures? When the market peaked at $50.35 intra-day on 21st January 1980 up from its low of $4.50, then you can boast that it bought over 17 gallons of fuel. You might not want to tell the full story though, because it soon fell back to only buy 3 and a 1/2 gallons within a week or two. Or if you feel inclined, why not clarify the reasons why silver is going to increase in price by using examples such as this gleaned from wikipedia - quote

"In April 2007, Commitments of Traders Report revealed that four or fewer traders held 90% of all short silver futures contracts totalling 245 million troy ounces, which is equivalent to 140 days of production. According to Ted Butler, one of these banks with large silver shorts, JPMorgan Chase, is also the custodian of the SLV silver ETF. Some silver analysis have pointed to a potential conflict of interest, as close scrutiny of Comex documents reveals that ETF shares may be used to "cover" Comex physical metal deliveries. This led analysts to speculate that some stores of silver have multiple claims upon them. On 25 September 2008 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) relented and probed the silver market after persistent complaints of foul play.[22]

In April 2010, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs trader, went public with assertions of market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase and HSBC of the gold and silver markets, prompting a number of lawsuits.[23][24] In response to allegations of market manipulation from silver investors such as Max Keiser, Blythe Masters, Head of Global Commodities for JP Morgan, told CNBC in April 2012 "often when customers have metal stored in their facility, they hedge it through JP Morgan on a forward basis who in turn hedges itself in the commodity markets. If you see only the hedges and our activity in the futures market, but you aren’t aware of the underlying client position that we’re hedging then it would suggest inaccurately that we are running a large directional position."[25]"

So you see, the market is invariably controlled by a few players who may change over time, but all have the same ultimate intention which is to get suckers to jump on board and buy their already overpriced metal in order to make a profit. Ultimately it will be the 'me too' want to get rich quick type of person who will end up the poorer. I think you are on the way there.

If I have misread the situation and in fact you are operating a Ponzi scheme, I apologise for my stupidity in being unable to identify the type of scam involved.

Sorry Rob, but, I have just read the bit of the post that you have highlighted and would love to know which garage Will refuels at? Silver is currently at £18.41/ounce and Will claims it will now buy 8 gallons of fuel... £2.30/gallon???

If you want to spout figures Will at least do your research/maths first.

[Paulus 1,942]

firstly I'm not here to debate, I'm purely telling people if they wish to make an income on the side of their full time job, or even go full time with this business, then this is a great business to go in to. Why would i be telling you, well I'm not the only person that is aware of it, just do a bit of research and you'll see whats happening in the world with silver. Its about getting real money in to hands of the everyday bloke on the street. Paper money is worthless, we can see this. The governments just keeps printing this trash and its bringing its value down. In 2006, a silver ounce could by you 4 gallons of fuel, today it can buy you double that. Try doing that with a tenner.

This whole business isn't about collecting coins on the whole. Thats a side thing. I give people the opportunity to get involved and make some money part time. If they don't want to make any, thats fine. It costs nothing to take a look at the business. We all work as a family, theres no competition, if i want to succeed my friends have to succeed so we all help each other. Its brilliant.

This is all marketing crap. If you really want to show the buying power of silver, why not use the 1980 $/£ adjusted figures? When the market peaked at $50.35 intra-day on 21st January 1980 up from its low of $4.50, then you can boast that it bought over 17 gallons of fuel. You might not want to tell the full story though, because it soon fell back to only buy 3 and a 1/2 gallons within a week or two. Or if you feel inclined, why not clarify the reasons why silver is going to increase in price by using examples such as this gleaned from wikipedia - quote

"In April 2007, Commitments of Traders Report revealed that four or fewer traders held 90% of all short silver futures contracts totalling 245 million troy ounces, which is equivalent to 140 days of production. According to Ted Butler, one of these banks with large silver shorts, JPMorgan Chase, is also the custodian of the SLV silver ETF. Some silver analysis have pointed to a potential conflict of interest, as close scrutiny of Comex documents reveals that ETF shares may be used to "cover" Comex physical metal deliveries. This led analysts to speculate that some stores of silver have multiple claims upon them. On 25 September 2008 the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) relented and probed the silver market after persistent complaints of foul play.[22]

In April 2010, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs trader, went public with assertions of market manipulation by JPMorgan Chase and HSBC of the gold and silver markets, prompting a number of lawsuits.[23][24] In response to allegations of market manipulation from silver investors such as Max Keiser, Blythe Masters, Head of Global Commodities for JP Morgan, told CNBC in April 2012 "often when customers have metal stored in their facility, they hedge it through JP Morgan on a forward basis who in turn hedges itself in the commodity markets. If you see only the hedges and our activity in the futures market, but you aren’t aware of the underlying client position that we’re hedging then it would suggest inaccurately that we are running a large directional position."[25]"

So you see, the market is invariably controlled by a few players who may change over time, but all have the same ultimate intention which is to get suckers to jump on board and buy their already overpriced metal in order to make a profit. Ultimately it will be the 'me too' want to get rich quick type of person who will end up the poorer. I think you are on the way there.

If I have misread the situation and in fact you are operating a Ponzi scheme, I apologise for my stupidity in being unable to identify the type of scam involved.

Sorry Rob, but, I have just read the bit of the post that you have highlighted and would love to know which garage Will refuels at? Silver is currently at £18.41/ounce and Will claims it will now buy 8 gallons of fuel... £2.30/gallon???

If you want to spout figures Will at least do your research/maths first.

I think he has been Americanised where gas is cheaper and gallons are smaller! I hope he has diversified his investments!

[azda 973]

He's been taken away by little green men wanting to probe him, but unfortunately the could'nt find any grey matter and dropped him off in America along with the other abductees.

George Bush refused to comment until someone prompted him to speak.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Well now, we may be being unfair to Will. Maybe he's the innocent party here. But when I hear “Silver Is The BIGGEST Opportunity I've Ever Seen†I think 'scam'.

In which case, it's most fortunate that you found us, since we are coin collectors first, not in it for 'business' and we're not just brand new ones, either. And I think we can all confidently say that this sounds like a brilliant way to throw away money. OK, you might be at the top and have your silver paid for by later joiners to the scheme - I'm guessing that's how it works. But if silver doesn't increase in value ...

So, if you're as young and naive as you sound Will, my advice is get out now. And if not, well, I'm pretty sure there will be no buyers here for this scheme.

I'll leave this thread up so Google can link to the debate.

[Peter 615]

Why would anyone get less than £20 of silver bullion slabbed?

The slabbing must = the bullion value.

Fools and money are soon parted.

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

Ok, i think i need to clear a few things.

This is Network Marketing. NOT a pyramid scheme/scam. If you knew what a pyramid scheme/scam was you'd understand that it isn't network marketing. Pyramid schemes are ILLEGAL. You have to hold stock and sell a product to someone who you set on, at a certain price, then they have to sell it again at a profit, then this keeps going until someone can't sell it as its too expensive. I don't hold any stock with network marketing, i don't have to sell any stock with network marketing and people who come in the business below me do not buy a product at a higher price. Please understand network marketing before you criticise.

Next, people in the UK DO buy slabbed coins. We watch them sell on eBay all the time. Besides, people can buy from from england from other countries.

Im not just buying slabbed coins, I'm buying bullion coins too. Thats my way of investing in silver, as well as investing in slabbed coins. We watched a certain chinese panda slabbed coins SELL on ebay for about £1100. If i remember correctly it was from 2006. I wish id bought that coin back then.

I feel theres a slight snobbery attitude on this forum and because I'm young and a beginner i can't possible know what I'm on about. What the hell do i eh?

Ive started making money on the network marketing. In a month i have wiped out my initial cost and i have monthly payments coming in that covers the monthly cost which also includes a 1oz american silver eagle. Network marketing is starting to really kick up a storm in many countries, its BIG business.

This particular company is for people who like to collect slabbed or un slabbed coins and would like to make a living whilst collecting. I don't want to have MY savings sat in the bank. Its making nothing in interest, who knows whats going to happen? So I'm converting my worthless paper money in to real tangible assets.

This next bit of info, you probably won't believe but anyway......

A guy called Stephen (original lindisfarne drummer) had this business put to him about 15 months ago by a friend over the pond, he kept it a secret in the UK for year and all his business came from america. He now has roughly 400 people below him. They are ALL in america. He's making a lot of money. He's such a nice guy. I met him for the first time a couple of weeks ago and we Skype often, you can even Skype with me and him if you'd like to know more. So this shows the business works, and he hasn't had to sell a single coin. He may of but i don't know. So anyone over here can still do it just because someone people think us brits don't buy slabbed coins. Maybe times are changing in the coin collecting business?

Look, to do this business, the bare minimum to purchase is ONE slabbed american eagle coin. Why not join this networking business and carry on collecting your preferred coins else where?

i think i will probably buy a few old coins un slabbed in the future, forgetting the silver coins for investment. Just out enjoyment of collecting coins! This is a great business and anyone who rights it off without even looking it to it properly is narrow minded. We ripped this business apart to see if it was genuine. Id LOVE everyone to do that so they can see it is genuine and its NOT a pyramid scheme/scam

I also work for the Youth Hostel Association and can't wait to leave. Not long now.

Thanks for all the responses. They actually spur me on to succeed even more!

[Peter 615]

Ok, i think i need to clear a few things.

This is Network Marketing. NOT a pyramid scheme/scam. If you knew what a pyramid scheme/scam was you'd understand that it isn't network marketing. Pyramid schemes are ILLEGAL. You have to hold stock and sell a product to someone who you set on, at a certain price, then they have to sell it again at a profit, then this keeps going until someone can't sell it as its too expensive. I don't hold any stock with network marketing, i don't have to sell any stock with network marketing and people who come in the business below me do not buy a product at a higher price. Please understand network marketing before you criticise.

Next, people in the UK DO buy slabbed coins. We watch them sell on eBay all the time. Besides, people can buy from from england from other countries.

Im not just buying slabbed coins, I'm buying bullion coins too. Thats my way of investing in silver, as well as investing in slabbed coins. We watched a certain chinese panda slabbed coins SELL on ebay for about £1100. If i remember correctly it was from 2006. I wish id bought that coin back then.

I feel theres a slight snobbery attitude on this forum and because I'm young and a beginner i can't possible know what I'm on about. What the hell do i eh?

Ive started making money on the network marketing. In a month i have wiped out my initial cost and i have monthly payments coming in that covers the monthly cost which also includes a 1oz american silver eagle. Network marketing is starting to really kick up a storm in many countries, its BIG business.

This particular company is for people who like to collect slabbed or un slabbed coins and would like to make a living whilst collecting. I don't want to have MY savings sat in the bank. Its making nothing in interest, who knows whats going to happen? So I'm converting my worthless paper money in to real tangible assets.

This next bit of info, you probably won't believe but anyway......

A guy called Stephen (original lindisfarne drummer) had this business put to him about 15 months ago by a friend over the pond, he kept it a secret in the UK for year and all his business came from america. He now has roughly 400 people below him. They are ALL in america. He's making a lot of money. He's such a nice guy. I met him for the first time a couple of weeks ago and we Skype often, you can even Skype with me and him if you'd like to know more. So this shows the business works, and he hasn't had to sell a single coin. He may of but i don't know. So anyone over here can still do it just because someone people think us brits don't buy slabbed coins. Maybe times are changing in the coin collecting business?

Look, to do this business, the bare minimum to purchase is ONE slabbed american eagle coin. Why not join this networking business and carry on collecting your preferred coins else where?

i think i will probably buy a few old coins un slabbed in the future, forgetting the silver coins for investment. Just out enjoyment of collecting coins! This is a great business and anyone who rights it off without even looking it to it properly is narrow minded. We ripped this business apart to see if it was genuine. Id LOVE everyone to do that so they can see it is genuine and its NOT a pyramid scheme/scam

I also work for the Youth Hostel Association and can't wait to leave. Not long now.

Thanks for all the responses. They actually spur me on to succeed even more!

The fog on the Tyne is mine all mine..lets have a wee up the wall.

[TomGoodheart 373]

I feel theres a slight snobbery attitude on this forum and because I'm young and a beginner i can't possible know what I'm on about.

I'm sorry if it's come across like that Will. I think it's that we're coin collectors first and several of us perhaps view the investment side with some scepticism/cynicism. We are mostly grumpy old men after all!

You're happy with your choice and are making money, great! But I'm still curious;

the bare minimum to purchase is ONE slabbed american eagle coin.

Care to say how much that would cost me?

[TomGoodheart 373]

Care to say how much that would cost me?

Oh, s'OK, I got it.

"ISNCoins has a start up cost of $149 (including your first coin), and an autoship of $96.95 per month to receive 1 MS69 American Silver Eagle. ISNCoins ships you a MS69 Silver Coin worth about $40-45. Your first year expenses would come out to $1215, or an average of $101 per month.

International Silver Network uses a simple uni-level that pays 8 levels down, and infinitely wide. For all personally sponsored collector reps, you earn $12 residually. For any collector rep that is within your 8 levels, you receive $4 per coin shipped.

If you sponsored two collector reps and the rest of your income came from $4 overrides, it would only take 21 collector reps TOTAL underneath you to reach $96 per month. Now, if you personally sponsored each of your downline, it would only take 8 TOTAL COLLECTOR REPS to reach your $96. That means you are paying absolutely nothing to be in ISN, and you are receiving a FREE MS69 American Eagle Silver coin."

Seems complicated to me. But what do I know?

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

If you join this company, you get a slabbed 1oz early release MS69 american eagle for £40. Now, you can buy these cheaper from one one of the biggest if not the biggest companies 'APMEX' for cheaper but you have to spend a minimum of $1500. But if i buy these eagles from the company, I'm earning an income so it doesn't really matter. Some people sell these on ebay for a bit cheaper also, not as cheap as APMEX, so they must buy in bulk so they can sell at a lower price than what i can buy from my company. However, some people sell the same coin on ebay for more than i pay for it, and people still actually buy them!! It sounds daft but you can't hide from the truth.

I shall be buying some bullion from APMEX soon, as an investment. The thing is, this business isn't all about collecting coins, its about changing your worthless paper money in to real money. An asset. I totally get that some of you guys will be collecting coins not as an investment, just out of pure enjoyment. Like my other hobbie of drums, i keep buying cymbals when i can, not for an investment, for enjoyment.

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

Im not sure where you have got your figures from tom but they are way out. They don't pay down 8 levels, they pay down infinitely but you are correct about infinitely wide.

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

oh and it does seem complicated but if you read through the plan a few times it starts to sink in. Some of the people who are in this for networking don't care how it works, they just like how they are receiving money which is fine. However my dad, being my dad likes to know exactly how it works lol

[Peter 615]

FFS close this thread.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Im not sure where you have got your figures from tom but they are way out. They don't pay down 8 levels, they pay down infinitely but you are correct about infinitely wide.

OK. I just quoted from this article comparing Numis Network with ISN. (He liked ISN better).

Edited June 17, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

Peter there is a discussion going on that two people are talking about and others may want to talk about it also. Please be considerate.

Tom I've found the site you got it from, thats quite old, the new plan is VERY different. Anything you want to know please ask, or i can put you on to the lindisfarne drummer haha

[1949threepence 3,366]

FFS close this thread.

Succinct and seconded by me.

My bullshitometer is bleeping very loudly right now.

[azda 973]

You seem to be forgetting the fees involved selling on ebay, 13.5% if payment is made with paypal

[Peckris 579]

There is/was a similar scheme involving Natural Health products (vitamins and other supplements). As you say Will, these are not pyramid schemes per se i.e. they are perfectly legal. I looked into joining this other scheme (this was in the 90s) but after reading the literature thoroughly, I concluded that it involved more time and effort and recruitment than I was prepared to put in.

As ever, those who are prepared to make a career out of it, and have a natural talent for it, can probably make a fair amount of money out of it. But that's not many (most?) of us. As has been said, this is a forum for grumpy old collectors to chew the fat, show off their latest acquisitions, discuss varieties old and new, talk about the future of the hobby, moan about eBay, etc. I accept you're not the average spammer we have to endure (they never reply to their spams), but equally you might find more profitable responses in a forum devoted to investment methods.

If I've got this badly wrong, I'm happy to be corrected, but it looks like too much of an effort to me. "There's no such thing as a free lunch". Really. There isn't.

[Will_loves_collecting_coin 0]

Your right this isn't for everyone! I opened an account on this forum to post a couple of threads about the business incase someone fancied earning some money. The best proven way of network marketing is to phone and email people but I've also gone down the route of Facebook, twitter etc, a bit more 21st century! It can only take one person who does really well and i do really well. If every person that comes in to it sets just two people on, theres big money to be made.

I shall be trying other forums like investment ones as you've mentioned if there are some around, I'm sure there are. But like i said, the best way is phone and email

Thanks for all the responses!

[Mongo 1]

Dear Will,

My name is Dr Zunami Bumambi,

I am the leading medical detective for the armed forces of Nigeria, due to an unforseen curcumstance, my uncle, the Prince of Zimbabwe has been arrested in Somalia. Before his arrest, he deposited $56,000,000 USD in the car boot of a taxi.

If you could help me recover these monies, I will compensate you with $4,000,000 USD.

All I need from you is your name, address, bank account details, social security number, telephone number, mothers maiden name and your shoe size.

Regards

Dr Zunami Bumambi.

[Boomstick 0]

Will, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. All of the silver surfers here would much rather blow any spare 000's on micro varieties of bun pennies than bullion, whilst those of us below, say, 40 have no money - losing jobs, no pay rises, commuting costs going through the roof, families to feed, no pensions etc. Maybe try a hedge fund managers forum??

[Coinery 926]

I've got to hand it to you, Will, and all credit where it's due, you've been incredibly mature and polite under fire!

Good luck in your ventures, I wish you well, just not really my bag!

[1949threepence 3,366]

Dear Will,

My name is Dr Zunami Bumambi,

I am the leading medical detective for the armed forces of Nigeria, due to an unforseen curcumstance, my uncle, the Prince of Zimbabwe has been arrested in Somalia. Before his arrest, he deposited $56,000,000 USD in the car boot of a taxi.

If you could help me recover these monies, I will compensate you with $4,000,000 USD.

All I need from you is your name, address, bank account details, social security number, telephone number, mothers maiden name and your shoe size.

Regards

Dr Zunami Bumambi.

lol ~ reminds me of the e mail I received "from the desk of Prince somebody or other of Nigeria", promising me $3 million for a £500 registration fee. He quoted a London address which, when I google earthed it, turned out to be a disused petrol station in Hendon

Will, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. All of the silver surfers here would much rather blow any spare 000's on micro varieties of bun pennies than bullion, whilst those of us below, say, 40 have no money - losing jobs, no pay rises, commuting costs going through the roof, families to feed, no pensions etc. Maybe try a hedge fund managers forum??

Well from one 34 year old to another of similar age, I presume you will be taking advantage of this magnificent offer (for a small fee of course ) In the meatime, take a peek at their promo video on you tube ~

[azda 973]

Dear Will,

My name is Dr Zunami Bumambi,

I am the leading medical detective for the armed forces of Nigeria, due to an unforseen curcumstance, my uncle, the Prince of Zimbabwe has been arrested in Somalia. Before his arrest, he deposited $56,000,000 USD in the car boot of a taxi.

If you could help me recover these monies, I will compensate you with $4,000,000 USD.

All I need from you is your name, address, bank account details, social security number, telephone number, mothers maiden name and your shoe size.

Regards

Dr Zunami Bumambi.

lol ~ reminds me of the e mail I received "from the desk of Prince somebody or other of Nigeria", promising me $3 million for a £500 registration fee. He quoted a London address which, when I google earthed it, turned out to be a disused petrol station in Hendon

Will, I think you're fighting a losing battle here. All of the silver surfers here would much rather blow any spare 000's on micro varieties of bun pennies than bullion, whilst those of us below, say, 40 have no money - losing jobs, no pay rises, commuting costs going through the roof, families to feed, no pensions etc. Maybe try a hedge fund managers forum??

Well from one 34 year old to another of similar age, I presume you will be taking advantage of this magnificent offer (for a small fee of course ) In the meatime, take a peek at their promo video on you tube ~

FÜ%k, quick, where do i sign up. This guy has converted me with his modified video and his bullshit spiel..............

here is is again spouting armageddon Edited June 18, 2012 by azda