POLISHED COINS

[argentumandcoins 70]

Ebay is not a place for fools.Why do people accept grades or blatantly polished trash.

I've taken a couple of gambles..ok they don't always become the cash cow....a risk I will repeat.

Even the sharpest get stung there occasionally.

The most successful strikes on e bay fall into two camps, in my experience:-

a) Nice coins with a high initial bid price, which nevertheless is still nowhere near their true value. Would be bidders are strangely put off by the high start price, and often by-pass it completely, leaving someone else to make the only punt at the original price, thus bagging a real bargain.

b ) Really high end coins which would be better off in a proper auction. They will sell, for sure, but usually end up at between 55% to 75% of what they could potentially realise elsewhere. It's a real mistake for high quality expensive coins to be put on e bay.

Gambling strikes which may or may not pay off, are on those with poor photography, where the coin cannot properly be seen. This often puts buyers off, leaving the speculator room for a potential killing, or to get their fingers burned.

There has been (and will probably continue to be) another more sinister ebay tactic; the seller of the major/undiscovered rarity, thta is actually a forgery.

2 examples leap to mind; the 1860 unrecorded die pairing penny about 3 years ago and the "plain edge proof" 1819 Crown that is now on offer at a major auction house with the tag that the edge has been deliberately smoothed.

The first coin was an excellent effort and I think I pushed it to about £1500 (I am sure there will be another member or two on here who also had a stab at it). I cannot comment on the second as I did not see it sold on ebay.

This type of scam is very worrying, particularly when the forger is very skilled.

Another area of selling is the "unable to price it" item. I sell lots of things on there that seem to fetch incredible prices (mainly exonumia) and foreign coins where I need access to a worldwide customer base which you just don't get with your website (or seem not to get).

For all the pitfalls of ebay the plain truth is that I need it to survive (where else do you get rid of 1971 first decimal sets?)

[Coinery 926]

Ebay is not a place for fools.Why do people accept grades or blatantly polished trash.

I've taken a couple of gambles..ok they don't always become the cash cow....a risk I will repeat.

Even the sharpest get stung there occasionally.

The most successful strikes on e bay fall into two camps, in my experience:-

a) Nice coins with a high initial bid price, which nevertheless is still nowhere near their true value. Would be bidders are strangely put off by the high start price, and often by-pass it completely, leaving someone else to make the only punt at the original price, thus bagging a real bargain.

b ) Really high end coins which would be better off in a proper auction. They will sell, for sure, but usually end up at between 55% to 75% of what they could potentially realise elsewhere. It's a real mistake for high quality expensive coins to be put on e bay.

Gambling strikes which may or may not pay off, are on those with poor photography, where the coin cannot properly be seen. This often puts buyers off, leaving the speculator room for a potential killing, or to get their fingers burned.

I'd agree with this analysis apart from the one factor you missed out - certain key dates that somehow seem to do far better on eBay than elsewhere, I'm thinking of things like 1903 and 1905 halfcrowns.

Regarding the above point b

I absolutely agree with the percentages, but I'm not sure which auctions outside of eBay are being talked about for better prices? I spent a few days, six month's back, looking at the realised prices for a number of major auctions...I didn't find that many there that were making Spink book prices either, and sellers premiums aren't any better than eBay (mostly). I know minus 5% has been mentioned before but, generally speaking, eBay aren't off the scale at 10%, and they know it!

Does anybody know how often nice coins make their book price in major auctions? Would it be more often than not? I mean, the book prices are set according to the major auction results, so one would think they must more often do, it just doesn't look that way.

Do you think books like Spink attempts to 'drive' the market, rather than be an honest reflection OF the market?

Out and out raities, best known or way better than average pieces you can disregard the book. Just below that will try to push the boundaries, but not too much. Mid-range pieces will probably make around book after you have added buyer's premium, low grades won't sell unless an acknowledged rarity.

Spink doesn't attempt to drive the market prices. As a rule, there will always be a specific coin that goes way over the odds and the reason for it doing so filters into the market gossip. Consequently the yearly price revisions will not reflect a high price in full. We all notice the lots that sell for more than expected, but rarely comment on those that mark time in keeping with the estimate. The latter is a truer reflection of where the market is at and will probably go in the future. The top end is driven by a larger number of people who recognise relative quality and have sufficient funds to not worry about overpaying on occasions. If you are happy paying £10K or more for a coin, it doesn't really matter if you pay £300 for a £100 coin in the overall context of the collection as the overpayment will be a praction of a percentage point of its total value.

The problem with overpaying on ebay is that most culprits are doing so out of ignorance with respect to the general market, what dealers have on offer (usually at substantially lower prices), have a reliance on the quoted grade as gospel, and mostly have never seen a high grade coin with which to make a considered judgement.

Thanks for the feedback, Rob! I haven't forgotten our most recent discussion, by the way, I'm on the case! Albeit slowly!

[Peter 615]

I'm in 2 minds of sending coins abroad.Unless high value where belt and braces insurance is viable.

When it comes to polished coins surely the buyer can see this.Also dipped coins stand out a mile.

[Peckris 579]

I'm in 2 minds of sending coins abroad.Unless high value where belt and braces insurance is viable.

When it comes to polished coins surely the buyer can see this.Also dipped coins stand out a mile.

Amend : BADLY dipped coins...

[TomGoodheart 373]

I think ebay has it's uses. For a buyer it has the huge advantage over auctions in that you don't have the buyer's premium. And if you want to avoid paypal there are still cheques for the UK.

There's also the thing that for sellers an unusual item can be buried amongst other stuff at auction, whereas with ebay you can to a degree tailor your listing to your potential buyers.

It's the old thing. There are bargains to be had all over the place. But to benefit from ebay you need to know your coins, ask the right questions and reassure yourself. If you have the budget to take a gamble, that's up to you, it can pay off. Or not.

The major problem with ebay is that as well as a huge market place it is also an ideal place for sellers with no knowledge of what they are selling (and invariably overinflated opinions. Go on a detectorist site and 9 times out of 10 when discussing a hammered coin people identify the type or mint mark as one of the rarest rather than looking for the simplest and commonest answer) with people who similarly have little knowledge about what they are buying. Hence the market for what are, basically, ruined coins.

Of course, as a counterpoint, I was looking through an auction catalogue from about 10 years ago and to me many of the coins I was interested in looked dipped and a few others appeared to have tell-tale scratches suggesting cleaning. Not horrendous, but none of the mix of toning you'd expect from a collection built up over 20 years or so. There was no mention of this in the catalogue and the coins, obviously, sold. Maybe buyers are more tolerant of such things than I thought ...?

[1949threepence 3,366]

Ebay is not a place for fools.Why do people accept grades or blatantly polished trash.

I've taken a couple of gambles..ok they don't always become the cash cow....a risk I will repeat.

Even the sharpest get stung there occasionally.

The most successful strikes on e bay fall into two camps, in my experience:-

a) Nice coins with a high initial bid price, which nevertheless is still nowhere near their true value. Would be bidders are strangely put off by the high start price, and often by-pass it completely, leaving someone else to make the only punt at the original price, thus bagging a real bargain.

b ) Really high end coins which would be better off in a proper auction. They will sell, for sure, but usually end up at between 55% to 75% of what they could potentially realise elsewhere. It's a real mistake for high quality expensive coins to be put on e bay.

Gambling strikes which may or may not pay off, are on those with poor photography, where the coin cannot properly be seen. This often puts buyers off, leaving the speculator room for a potential killing, or to get their fingers burned.

There has been (and will probably continue to be) another more sinister ebay tactic; the seller of the major/undiscovered rarity, thta is actually a forgery.

2 examples leap to mind; the 1860 unrecorded die pairing penny about 3 years ago and the "plain edge proof" 1819 Crown that is now on offer at a major auction house with the tag that the edge has been deliberately smoothed.

The first coin was an excellent effort and I think I pushed it to about £1500 (I am sure there will be another member or two on here who also had a stab at it). I cannot comment on the second as I did not see it sold on ebay.

This type of scam is very worrying, particularly when the forger is very skilled.

Another area of selling is the "unable to price it" item. I sell lots of things on there that seem to fetch incredible prices (mainly exonumia) and foreign coins where I need access to a worldwide customer base which you just don't get with your website (or seem not to get).

For all the pitfalls of ebay the plain truth is that I need it to survive (where else do you get rid of 1971 first decimal sets?)

Just as a matter of interest, John, how did that emerge as being a forgery ? Also, was it tooled, or an out and out fake ?

[Gary D 76]

I think ebay has it's uses. For a buyer it has the huge advantage over auctions in that you don't have the buyer's premium. And if you want to avoid paypal there are still cheques for the UK.

There's also the thing that for sellers an unusual item can be buried amongst other stuff at auction, whereas with ebay you can to a degree tailor your listing to your potential buyers.

It's the old thing. There are bargains to be had all over the place. But to benefit from ebay you need to know your coins, ask the right questions and reassure yourself. If you have the budget to take a gamble, that's up to you, it can pay off. Or not.

The major problem with ebay is that as well as a huge market place it is also an ideal place for sellers with no knowledge of what they are selling (and invariably overinflated opinions. Go on a detectorist site and 9 times out of 10 when discussing a hammered coin people identify the type or mint mark as one of the rarest rather than looking for the simplest and commonest answer) with people who similarly have little knowledge about what they are buying. Hence the market for what are, basically, ruined coins.

Of course, as a counterpoint, I was looking through an auction catalogue from about 10 years ago and to me many of the coins I was interested in looked dipped and a few others appeared to have tell-tale scratches suggesting cleaning. Not horrendous, but none of the mix of toning you'd expect from a collection built up over 20 years or so. There was no mention of this in the catalogue and the coins, obviously, sold. Maybe buyers are more tolerant of such things than I thought ...?

A seller not knowing what he's got can also work to your advantage. My 1908 164a penny for a couple of dollars insured for £600, BU 1909 penny with dot £65 insured for £3500. And would dipping a 1933 penny slow it down for 1 second.

[Accumulator 52]

Out and out raities, best known or way better than average pieces you can disregard the book. Just below that will try to push the boundaries, but not too much. Mid-range pieces will probably make around book after you have added buyer's premium, low grades won't sell unless an acknowledged rarity.

Spink doesn't attempt to drive the market prices. As a rule, there will always be a specific coin that goes way over the odds and the reason for it doing so filters into the market gossip. Consequently the yearly price revisions will not reflect a high price in full. We all notice the lots that sell for more than expected, but rarely comment on those that mark time in keeping with the estimate. The latter is a truer reflection of where the market is at and will probably go in the future. The top end is driven by a larger number of people who recognise relative quality and have sufficient funds to not worry about overpaying on occasions. If you are happy paying £10K or more for a coin, it doesn't really matter if you pay £300 for a £100 coin in the overall context of the collection as the overpayment will be a praction of a percentage point of its total value.

The problem with overpaying on ebay is that most culprits are doing so out of ignorance with respect to the general market, what dealers have on offer (usually at substantially lower prices), have a reliance on the quoted grade as gospel, and mostly have never seen a high grade coin with which to make a considered judgement.

That's a very good point Rob. Though I don't buy 10k coins, I have bought several for £1-2k+, which means that when I spot an example on eBay that would perhaps be a nice upgrade for a relatively common coin worth only perhaps £100, I might nevertheless stick in a bid for £150 just to be sure of getting it. This doesn't mean the coin would generally be worth more than £100, just that there's a fool out there (me in this instance ) willing to pay over the odds to save the time and hassle of finding another such example. I did this very thing the other night, buying an UNC 82 grade CGS slabbed upgrade for over the odds. I can't be alone in ocassionally acting this way!

[Coinery 926]

Out and out raities, best known or way better than average pieces you can disregard the book. Just below that will try to push the boundaries, but not too much. Mid-range pieces will probably make around book after you have added buyer's premium, low grades won't sell unless an acknowledged rarity.

Spink doesn't attempt to drive the market prices. As a rule, there will always be a specific coin that goes way over the odds and the reason for it doing so filters into the market gossip. Consequently the yearly price revisions will not reflect a high price in full. We all notice the lots that sell for more than expected, but rarely comment on those that mark time in keeping with the estimate. The latter is a truer reflection of where the market is at and will probably go in the future. The top end is driven by a larger number of people who recognise relative quality and have sufficient funds to not worry about overpaying on occasions. If you are happy paying £10K or more for a coin, it doesn't really matter if you pay £300 for a £100 coin in the overall context of the collection as the overpayment will be a praction of a percentage point of its total value.

The problem with overpaying on ebay is that most culprits are doing so out of ignorance with respect to the general market, what dealers have on offer (usually at substantially lower prices), have a reliance on the quoted grade as gospel, and mostly have never seen a high grade coin with which to make a considered judgement.

That's a very good point Rob. Though I don't buy 10k coins, I have bought several for £1-2k+, which means that when I spot an example on eBay that would perhaps be a nice upgrade for a relatively common coin worth only perhaps £100, I might nevertheless stick in a bid for £150 just to be sure of getting it. This doesn't mean the coin would generally be worth more than £100, just that there's a fool out there (me in this instance ) willing to pay over the odds to save the time and hassle of finding another such example. I did this very thing the other night, buying an UNC 82 grade CGS slabbed upgrade for over the odds. I can't be alone in ocassionally acting this way!

There's a lot of this going on! I bid £259 on a Elizabeth 6d yesterday, thinking that was ample over the top...lost it at £278.55

If anybody on here won it, can I have a picture of the bust please! ;-)

[Peter 615]

http://www.bestnudeceleb.com/defamer/celeb41/pics/celebdefamer_com_15.jpg

This is the best I could do

[Peter 615]

As a side thought how could Hugh Grant go off with a buck wh*re.

Shane Warne must of bowled his best Googilie

[argentumandcoins 70]

Ebay is not a place for fools.Why do people accept grades or blatantly polished trash.

I've taken a couple of gambles..ok they don't always become the cash cow....a risk I will repeat.

Even the sharpest get stung there occasionally.

The most successful strikes on e bay fall into two camps, in my experience:-

a) Nice coins with a high initial bid price, which nevertheless is still nowhere near their true value. Would be bidders are strangely put off by the high start price, and often by-pass it completely, leaving someone else to make the only punt at the original price, thus bagging a real bargain.

b ) Really high end coins which would be better off in a proper auction. They will sell, for sure, but usually end up at between 55% to 75% of what they could potentially realise elsewhere. It's a real mistake for high quality expensive coins to be put on e bay.

Gambling strikes which may or may not pay off, are on those with poor photography, where the coin cannot properly be seen. This often puts buyers off, leaving the speculator room for a potential killing, or to get their fingers burned.

There has been (and will probably continue to be) another more sinister ebay tactic; the seller of the major/undiscovered rarity, thta is actually a forgery.

2 examples leap to mind; the 1860 unrecorded die pairing penny about 3 years ago and the "plain edge proof" 1819 Crown that is now on offer at a major auction house with the tag that the edge has been deliberately smoothed.

The first coin was an excellent effort and I think I pushed it to about £1500 (I am sure there will be another member or two on here who also had a stab at it). I cannot comment on the second as I did not see it sold on ebay.

This type of scam is very worrying, particularly when the forger is very skilled.

Another area of selling is the "unable to price it" item. I sell lots of things on there that seem to fetch incredible prices (mainly exonumia) and foreign coins where I need access to a worldwide customer base which you just don't get with your website (or seem not to get).

For all the pitfalls of ebay the plain truth is that I need it to survive (where else do you get rid of 1971 first decimal sets?)

Just as a matter of interest, John, how did that emerge as being a forgery ? Also, was it tooled, or an out and out fake ?

I don't know how it was found out initially but Michael Gouby records it on page 100 of the Speciallist edition. He sounds like he has handled it himself and goes on to say that it went to the RM who concurred that the 0 had been altered from a 1.

[Peckris 579]

As a side thought how could Hugh Grant go off with a buck wh*re.

Shane Warne must of bowled his best Googilie

Ah, but he got caught, didn't he? Appeared before the judge, pleaded guilty, and asked for soixante-huit other offences to be taken into account.

[Rob 3,002]

Out and out raities, best known or way better than average pieces you can disregard the book. Just below that will try to push the boundaries, but not too much. Mid-range pieces will probably make around book after you have added buyer's premium, low grades won't sell unless an acknowledged rarity.

Spink doesn't attempt to drive the market prices. As a rule, there will always be a specific coin that goes way over the odds and the reason for it doing so filters into the market gossip. Consequently the yearly price revisions will not reflect a high price in full. We all notice the lots that sell for more than expected, but rarely comment on those that mark time in keeping with the estimate. The latter is a truer reflection of where the market is at and will probably go in the future. The top end is driven by a larger number of people who recognise relative quality and have sufficient funds to not worry about overpaying on occasions. If you are happy paying £10K or more for a coin, it doesn't really matter if you pay £300 for a £100 coin in the overall context of the collection as the overpayment will be a praction of a percentage point of its total value.

The problem with overpaying on ebay is that most culprits are doing so out of ignorance with respect to the general market, what dealers have on offer (usually at substantially lower prices), have a reliance on the quoted grade as gospel, and mostly have never seen a high grade coin with which to make a considered judgement.

That's a very good point Rob. Though I don't buy 10k coins, I have bought several for £1-2k+, which means that when I spot an example on eBay that would perhaps be a nice upgrade for a relatively common coin worth only perhaps £100, I might nevertheless stick in a bid for £150 just to be sure of getting it. This doesn't mean the coin would generally be worth more than £100, just that there's a fool out there (me in this instance ) willing to pay over the odds to save the time and hassle of finding another such example. I did this very thing the other night, buying an UNC 82 grade CGS slabbed upgrade for over the odds. I can't be alone in ocassionally acting this way!

You're not.