Hello

[Debbie 58]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

[Peter 615]

Hi Debbie

Welcome to the forum.I think the regulars who post are male...but it is possible to live another life behind the keyboard.

Shillings are an interesting type set although probably the most numerous in quantity to collect.Rotographic's (the owners of this site)do a brilliant pricing book which covers silver coins from 1800 to date including many varieties (and at a 1/4 the price of Spink)

I'm no expert on shillings but a forgery 1905 should be fairly easy to spot in hand.(should weigh 5.65g and be 23.6mm dia)If you are worried about this save as much as you can and get a good one from a reputable dealer.Get a highest grade possible as it will be an investment and easy to sell in the future.The same goes with all the shillings...buy less and better.

One of the forum members has also published a book on modern silver varieties.This can put you one step ahead of many dealers and sellers and let you get a few rare bargains.

Feel free to join in threads.There are no silly questions.

Peter

[Nick 325]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

[Debbie 58]

Thanks guys, that's really useful advise. I only ask as there seem to be an awful lot of 1905's on ebay at the moment. It makes one wonder if it really is such a scarce coin.

[TomGoodheart 373]

More of a fun read than a 'must have' is James May's The Splendid Shilling A nice history of the coin which your library might have, or I think copies can be picked up on Amazon or ebay for around £6.

Oh, and welcome!

[Peter 615]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

I just had a look on Ebay and there are several.

The dodgy one wouldn't be the one for sale on Saturday at 1:24pm ?

[Nick 325]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

I just had a look on Ebay and there are several.

The dodgy one wouldn't be the one for sale on Saturday at 1:24pm ?

Yep, that's the one that caught my eye.

[DaveG38 385]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

I just had a look on Ebay and there are several.

The dodgy one wouldn't be the one for sale on Saturday at 1:24pm ?

It certainly looks a bit iffy around the 5 itself. Some scratches, plus dark toning and the top arm looks the wrong shape to me.

Edited December 1, 2011 by DaveG38

[Peter 615]

I stand to be corrected here.

I'm aware the Far East have made the 1905 2/6 but the carefull removal and replacement of a single digit seems to be a home grown effort.

Colin Cooke pointed out this scam on 1875H 1/4's where the H has been removed so they can be passed as 1875 small date 1/4d's which are rare.

[Rob 3,002]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

Anecdotal doesn't come into it. Here is a 1904 converted into a 1905, but the person responsible didn't do a very good job of it and the metal forming the 5 fell off.

[Red Riley 2]

Anecdotal doesn't come into it. Here is a 1904 converted into a 1905, but the person responsible didn't do a very good job of it and the metal forming the 5 fell off.

In the meantime they've wrecked a perfectly good 19-0 something.

Anyway, welcome to the forum Debbie. We don't bite, except azda but then he's Scottish so we let him off...

[Debbie 58]

Thanks for all your replies. Tom, that Splendid Shilling book does look interesting - I will put it on my Christmas list ( much to the bemusement of my hubby who thinks I should be looking at shoes ) I had seen that 1905 shilling too and thought there was something not quite right, although mainly because I thought the rim looked a bit thicker than the other shillings I have of that era.

I have another question if I may. Does anyone know why there were no shillings issued in 1847 - or am I mistaken?

[Rob 3,002]

Thanks for all your replies. Tom, that Splendid Shilling book does look interesting - I will put it on my Christmas list ( much to the bemusement of my hubby who thinks I should be looking at shoes ) I had seen that 1905 shilling too and thought there was something not quite right, although mainly because I thought the rim looked a bit thicker than the other shillings I have of that era.

I have another question if I may. Does anyone know why there were no shillings issued in 1847 - or am I mistaken?

For the same reason there are no halfcrowns (currency) between 1851 and 1873 inclusive i.e. supply and demand, or for that matter Elizabeth II pennies in the 1950s or George V pennies in 1923-5. Coins are produced according to the demand from the banks and the quantities in circulation. If they don't order any coins of a particular denomination, then the mint won't produce them. You also have to consider that coins were regularly struck from dies bearing the previous year's date when there was a supply of unused dies, or alternatively old dies that still ahd some life left in them. The cost of producing new dies would have been much greater than the cost of punching the new date over the old. Overdates can be found for many years until the late 1800s on all denominations. Sometimes they are obvious, at other times less so depending on the depth to which the new charater was cut.

Mint output can also be restricted due to maintenance work, an example of which is 1882 where most of the coins struck were made by the Heaton Mint with only a handful struck at Tower Hill.

[Rob 3,002]

Thanks guys, that's really useful advise. I only ask as there seem to be an awful lot of 1905's on ebay at the moment. It makes one wonder if it really is such a scarce coin.

1905 is not difficult to find in low grade just as the other years are easy to obtain. The real rarity is one in mint state for which you would get a lot of competition up to at least the £2-3K price bracket. You are also observing the phenomenon of more rare coins appearing than you would expect. This is because they are worth more and so people sell them in the hope of making a greater profit. 1934 crowns see the same effect. 932 struck, but nearly every auction of modern milled has an example. The 1936 is three times more abundant based on RM figures for the quantity struck, but you don't see any more in sales, in fact you probably see fewer, but the price of a mint state 1934 is over 5x that of a 1936. Key dates always sell above the common years pro-rata because there are fewer examples to go around amongst collectors.

[Peckris 579]

Thanks for all your replies. Tom, that Splendid Shilling book does look interesting - I will put it on my Christmas list ( much to the bemusement of my hubby who thinks I should be looking at shoes ) I had seen that 1905 shilling too and thought there was something not quite right, although mainly because I thought the rim looked a bit thicker than the other shillings I have of that era.

I have another question if I may. Does anyone know why there were no shillings issued in 1847 - or am I mistaken?

For the same reason there are no halfcrowns (currency) between 1851 and 1873 inclusive i.e. supply and demand, or for that matter Elizabeth II pennies in the 1950s or George V pennies in 1923-5. Coins are produced according to the demand from the banks and the quantities in circulation. If they don't order any coins of a particular denomination, then the mint won't produce them. You also have to consider that coins were regularly struck from dies bearing the previous year's date when there was a supply of unused dies, or alternatively old dies that still ahd some life left in them. The cost of producing new dies would have been much greater than the cost of punching the new date over the old. Overdates can be found for many years until the late 1800s on all denominations. Sometimes they are obvious, at other times less so depending on the depth to which the new charater was cut.

Not quite, in that particular example. Halfcrowns ceased production to allow a decimal currency to be gradually introduced, of which the florin (introduced in 1849) was the first step, and replacement for the halfcrown. A cent was to be next, but the florin was to test public opinion first. In the end, although the florin became established, the clamour for the return of a larger denomination proved irresistible and so the halfcrown was reintroduced in 1874.

[azda 973]

Debbie welcome to the forum, i hope your stay here will be long and enjoyable. Being mainly male dominant, we shall take it easy with you, to hopefully encourage you to continue to collect and possibly (eventually) your son also.

I also collect for my son (he's only 3) but i hope one day when he's old enough he'll see the value of what i'm doing for him. Maybe you should remortgage the house to buy the ultimate coin, then your son will understand what it means to collect coins lol (please don't remortgage the house, i was kidding).

Kids want to be kids, a hobby to them is geeky in this day and age, maybe in time when you are amassing a nice collection he'll see your enjoyment and start toask questions, just do what you're doing and don't hesitate to ever ask a question, however silly you might think it be, everyone has to start somewhere, and with this hobby, you'll never stop learning.

P.s Debbie, there are a few dealers on this website, including the owner of the site, all are very knowledgeable and their grading is also spot on, so don't be scared to looked through what they also have to offer.

And welcome back to PECKRIS.............

Edited December 2, 2011 by azda

[Accumulator 52]

Welcome Debbie... (and, as Dave said, welcome back Peckris!)

For some strange reason the collecting of coins (or stamps for that matter) seems to appeal primarily to the male mind. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing more ladies would join us in this fascinating hobby and very much hope you maintain your interest and post here again.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Accumulator

[Rob 3,002]

Thanks for all your replies. Tom, that Splendid Shilling book does look interesting - I will put it on my Christmas list ( much to the bemusement of my hubby who thinks I should be looking at shoes ) I had seen that 1905 shilling too and thought there was something not quite right, although mainly because I thought the rim looked a bit thicker than the other shillings I have of that era.

I have another question if I may. Does anyone know why there were no shillings issued in 1847 - or am I mistaken?

For the same reason there are no halfcrowns (currency) between 1851 and 1873 inclusive i.e. supply and demand, or for that matter Elizabeth II pennies in the 1950s or George V pennies in 1923-5. Coins are produced according to the demand from the banks and the quantities in circulation. If they don't order any coins of a particular denomination, then the mint won't produce them. You also have to consider that coins were regularly struck from dies bearing the previous year's date when there was a supply of unused dies, or alternatively old dies that still ahd some life left in them. The cost of producing new dies would have been much greater than the cost of punching the new date over the old. Overdates can be found for many years until the late 1800s on all denominations. Sometimes they are obvious, at other times less so depending on the depth to which the new charater was cut.

Not quite, in that particular example. Halfcrowns ceased production to allow a decimal currency to be gradually introduced, of which the florin (introduced in 1849) was the first step, and replacement for the halfcrown. A cent was to be next, but the florin was to test public opinion first. In the end, although the florin became established, the clamour for the return of a larger denomination proved irresistible and so the halfcrown was reintroduced in 1874.

That's true, forgot about that. You can partly disregard the half crown reference as there were other influences at work in addition to supply and demand, but the others apply fully.

1847 is a strange year because the 6d is similarly lacking. A few were struck but probably almost exclusively from 1846 dies as there is a solitary(?) 1847 sixpence known. The half crowns of 1847 are even more interesting. E C Linton wrote a very good article in the 1958-59 BNJ concerning the number of half crowns struck and the number of dies produced for half crowns, but then overcut to serve in 1848 along with others dated 1846. The article was primarily concerned with the 1848 coins which hitherto had only been noted struck from 1848/6 dies, but in 1957 two coins dated 1848 but not overstruck turned up. Since then, 1848/7 and 1849/7 have also been discovered.

The paper notes that at the end of 1846 there were 35 obverse dies in stock, all dated 1846, 28 of which had been sunk in the last 6 months. In Jan and Feb 1847, 16 obverse dies were sunk, but it is not known if they were dated. Assume they weren't except for two. During 1847, 22 of the 35 1846 dies were destroyed leaving 13 1846 dies to coin during 1847. During the year, 367,488 half crowns were struck which explains the removal from service of the 22 1846 dies. As most 1848 dated coins are over 6 on the final digit, it is clear that these were dies from the 13 remaining at the end of 1847. However, the discovery of straight 1848 coins, not overstruck, means that the dies were incomplete in some instances and had the final digit added in the year they were required. Not known at the time of the article, but rather significant are Adams 676 which was a coin with the final 8 over 7, and Adams 680 which is a 9 over 7 indicating that at least two dies were finished with a final 7 digit in that year. Only 91,872 half crowns were struck in 1847 due to a fall in demand which explains the continuing use of 1846 dies well into 1848 and it is likely that the 1847 half crown dies were never used in that year as no half crowns of this date are known.

Sorry to pirate the thread, but 1847 is an interesting and unusual year for silver. I don't have any figures for shilling production in 1847, but what applied to the two denominations above is also likely to apply to the shillings. Pic attached of the two overdated half crowns.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Rob

[Debbie 58]

Wow, you don't get this sort of education when looking fot shoes! I just thought it odd that 1847 was the only missing year in a sequential run of over 130 years or so.

Azda - I hope you won't "be easy on me" just because I am a woman - however I do hope you will be because I am likely to ask some questions which many of you shall no doubt have had to answers many times before! I'll pluck up the courage soon to post the odd coin I have aquired so far...

[Chris Perkins 223]

Hello Debbie,

You say you've bought here before? I'm sure you'd be familiar to me if I knew your surname (you don't have to reveal it here).

Talking of shillings, I've just listed some Edwardian, including a couple of 05's:

http://www.predecimal.com/british-predecimal-coins-shillings-c-51_32_37.html

[Nick 325]

Hi all. I don't know how many ladies you get on this forum, but I started becoming interested in coin collecting initially in an attempt to get my 11year old son interested. My sucess with this has been limited.... I myself however have become hooked on collecting silver shillings and love the idea of having a nice example of one for each year from 1816 - 1990 ( old large 5 pence piece . ) I certainly don't have lots of money to spend on coins - I think the max amount I have spent on a coin is £50 and I tend to buy most of my shillings from ebay.I have bought a couple from members of this forum and from this website.I have only been collecting for about 18 months and have familiarised myself with Spink and PJ Davis British silver coins. Are there any other books that I should read that deal with shillings? Oh and is there any way of detecting a forged 1905 shilling? Thanks in advance.

I've heard anecdotal evidence about fake 1905 shillings where a 5 has been transplanted onto a higher grade 190x shilling which has the final digit of the date removed. So I would avoid any 1905 shilling where the position of the 5 looks a bit off, or has surface/tooling marks around the 5, or has heavier toning around the 5. There is one on eBay at the moment that I think looks a bit questionable.

I just had a look on Ebay and there are several.

The dodgy one wouldn't be the one for sale on Saturday at 1:24pm ?

Yep, that's the one that caught my eye.

In the end it sold for £410. Judging by the positive feedback the vendor received, the buyer seems happy with it - incredible.

I did report the item to eBay as a fake but, as usual, they did nothing.

[Coinery 926]

Has anyone still got that 1905 saved in their 'my eBay,' I'd be interested in the exact title or number of the listing, so I could pull it up and take a look myself?

Also, welcome Debbie, I'm very much a newbie myself. I have learnt more about coins this last few months on this forum, than I've learnt in over ten years of wading blindly through the hobby unsupported.

[Debbie 58]

Hi Coinery Here's the link - I'm storing it for future reference!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320801770634?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Debbie 58]

Sorry Threepence - meant to do this!1905 shilling

[Peter 615]

Sorry Threepence - meant to do this!1905 shilling

The more I look at that 1/- the more I'm convinced its wrong.

Has anyone dropped a note to the buyer (& seller)? I have a feeling this is all innocent.It would be interesting to trace the history of this coin.