1861 Penny identification

[Prax]

Hi all,

I purchased a coin as a R18 3 years back at Croydon Auctions lot 278 and have since put it with 2 other coins in the same pouch I am having trouble identifying which it is. I am about 90% certain it is the third in any case I still require some help identifying the Freeman varieties for the 3 coins. I have attached the 3 pennies that were in the same pouch. I hope you can help identify the varieties for me. I have very little experience with 1861 pennies. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Prax

Edited November 25, 2014 by Prax

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

I'm on my cell phone so it's difficult for me to see on the small screen...

However, in the order posted, they appear to be an F-22 (4&D), an F-32 (6&F) the rare variety, and an F-25 (4&G).

Possibly someone with a large screen can confirm or refute my assessment.

[Prax]

coin 1

[Prax]

coin 1

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#vn6PR6C

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#mwDCYMg

coin 2

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#p4PL08T

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#I2Fa0x6

coin 3

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#6KvpUuJ

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#74hZyiK

Many thanks.

[just.me]

coin 1

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#vn6PR6C

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#mwDCYMg

coin 2

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#p4PL08T

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#I2Fa0x6

coin 3

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#6KvpUuJ

http://imgur.com/a/ZCV1M#74hZyiK

Many thanks.

I agree with B+C Collector. Coin 2 has the reverse F, which is rare paired with any obverse. There are a few identifiers but the thick plumes and round top lighthouse are the easiest i.d. points on lower grade specimens

[Prax]

thanks both

[bronze mad]

im pretty sure the first penny is 2+D but the legends have dirt in them so can't be too sure, maybe give it a wash in hot soapy water, rub with fingers only.

the second one is 6+F scarce pairing and sought after, rated R16 by freeman

third one im not sure either 4+G or 5+G, the latter is a very rare pairing R18 and the former still uncommon rated R12, but check with a magnifying

glass underneath the bust RH side there is a recess see if you can see a signature L.C.WYON. OBV 5 will have NO sig,

[Prax]

Cheers

[Prax]

On the first coin more than the die pairing the thing that intrigued me is the F over P on FD. I am not too sure if I mentioned it yet but the only chances of a R18 are with the third coin. It is slightly shameful but I purchased the coin through postal bid from Croydon Coin Auctions lot 278 - Auction 2 of 2011 as a 5+G (£ 126 + £7). However I think it is a 4+G. I still have the invoice :-) and it shows the perils of not researching well and that you can't trust even auction houses to be spot on with their descriptions. Some coins they sold to me as AU I found I would perhaps pass of of GVF at most. I hate to name people or organisations but I have had my fair share of being duped (accidentally or intentionally). Looks like most people are happy about how auction houses grade their coins while selling, so hate to be the lone voice against them. The third coin is testimony, that said I got the first coin for £ 22 so I guess I have had luck as well.

Has anyone come across a F over P on FD on a 4+G please?

[bronze mad]

Auction houses that specialise in coins should have top experts in all types of coins, and one should trust their judgement. however one needs to veiw the coins themselves, to be absolutely certain before bidding, as certain die pairings etc especially on worn coins is difficult to distinguish.

[Prax]

True. Very true.

[Coinery]

Croydon is a great auction for bargains and rarities, but grading is most definitely not their forte!

[Prax]

Very well said. Things a looking a lot better than they did 12 years back. These days I havee been able to spot errors with the catalogues and ask for a refund than to put the coin away only to find a few years later that the auction house had made a miistake.

Even with the last Spink auction I was able to spot and return this http://imgur.com/a/DXLbE listed as a low tide. Makes me nervous how many more horrors there are in my collection which have come about due to my previous 100% faith in auction houses, their grading and incorrect description.

[azda]

Lets not forget that auction house might be under time comstraints and may have to go through a lot of coins where things are missed and perhaps was wrongly catalogued such as the LT 1902, ut could be that there was another either side of your coin and this slipped in incorrectly.

Also bear in mind this can also work to your advanrage if you spot an error coin in an auction which they have'nt picked up on, i doubt you'd be sending it back if you'd won it?

[Prax]

ahem ahem if such a situation happened??? So far it has not happened in my case. But if it did

[Rob]

ahem ahem if such a situation happened??? So far it has not happened in my case. But if it did ...........................................................I'd walk around grinning like a Cheshire cat for a few days.

[Prax]

ahem ahem if such a situation happened??? So far it has not happened in my case. But if it did ...........................................................I'd walk around grinning like a Cheshire cat for a few days.

LOL Rob Cheshire cat Well no problem .... just let something like this happen to me https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=320001013