Wanted -1953 farthing dies 2+A

[Varietalis]

As everybody surely knows, the 1953 farthing has two obverses and two reverses resulting in four possible die combinations.

Obv 1 : Cross points to a bead

Obv 2 : Cross points to a space

Rev A : F and I point to a space

Rev B : F and I point to a bead

2+A is far and away the scarcest of the four die pairings and as such it has proven to be a seriously difficult gap to fill, hence this WANTED posting. Just to be clear, I'm on the look out for the business strike coin and not the proof. I could be persuaded to part with £50-£100 for a better grade example. Having said that I'm not too fussed about grade, my only stipulation is that it should be problem free i.e. no verdigris, no history of cleaning, no serious edge dings or scratches. Should anyone be jammy enough to have a spare one or indeed have one but want the money more then please PM me. Thank you.

[Peckris]

As everybody surely knows, the 1953 farthing has two obverses and two reverses resulting in four possible die combinations.

Obv 1 : Cross points to a bead

Obv 2 : Cross points to a space

Rev A : F and I point to a space

Rev B : F and I point to a bead

2+A is far and away the scarcest of the four die pairings and as such it has proven to be a seriously difficult gap to fill, hence this WANTED posting. Just to be clear, I'm on the look out for the business strike coin and not the proof. I could be persuaded to part with £50-£100 for a better grade example. Having said that I'm not too fussed about grade, my only stipulation is that it should be problem free i.e. no verdigris, no history of cleaning, no serious edge dings or scratches. Should anyone be jammy enough to have a spare one or indeed have one but want the money more then please PM me. Thank you.

I don't have a spare!! But what I do have is the proof which is estimated to be at least 10 times as rare as the business strike, and which Colin Cooke didn't actually believe to exist, for a while. Not sure why you would want the currency example? Very scarce yes, but not compared to the proof.

[Peter]

As everybody surely knows, the 1953 farthing has two obverses and two reverses resulting in four possible die combinations.

Obv 1 : Cross points to a bead

Obv 2 : Cross points to a space

Rev A : F and I point to a space

Rev B : F and I point to a bead

2+A is far and away the scarcest of the four die pairings and as such it has proven to be a seriously difficult gap to fill, hence this WANTED posting. Just to be clear, I'm on the look out for the business strike coin and not the proof. I could be persuaded to part with £50-£100 for a better grade example. Having said that I'm not too fussed about grade, my only stipulation is that it should be problem free i.e. no verdigris, no history of cleaning, no serious edge dings or scratches. Should anyone be jammy enough to have a spare one or indeed have one but want the money more then please PM me. Thank you.

I don't have a spare!! But what I do have is the proof which is estimated to be at least 10 times as rare as the business strike, and which Colin Cooke didn't actually believe to exist, for a while. Not sure why you would want the currency example? Very scarce yes, but not compared to the proof.

I still have difficulties with proofs although I have the 1953 set and a couple more.

Circulation coins just give me more joy.

[Colin G.]

I think the perception on scarcity for these has changed over recent years. The proofs have obviously been sifted out because they are readily available, whilst trying to get hold of a fully lustred currency is quite a challenge.

[Varietalis]

I'm trying to complete a collection of the alternative obverses for the 1953 business strike coins. This has not been as easy as it first sounds, particularly as I've held out for UNC or aUNC. The 2+A farthing is the outstanding gap for which I may have to settle for a much lower grade example. I've seen 2+A proofs up for sale, one on ebay even, but these don't fit in with the collection as it currently stands.

[Peckris]

I'm trying to complete a collection of the alternative obverses for the 1953 business strike coins. This has not been as easy as it first sounds, particularly as I've held out for UNC or aUNC. The 2+A farthing is the outstanding gap for which I may have to settle for a much lower grade example. I've seen 2+A proofs up for sale, one on ebay even, but these don't fit in with the collection as it currently stands.

Oh ok - that's a good reason. I got my proof when someone offered me a 1953 set when I was a dealer. I paid a fair buying price for it, and you can imagine my face when I examined it later and found the farthing was a 2+A.

[damian1986]

The last 2+A currency example that I saw on the market was UNC with good lustre and sold for around £300. A full lustre example in the Oxford collection sold for £425 and this was some time ago... the proofs go for nearer the £100 mark in high grade.

Each to their own but the proof will do the job for me just as an example of these dies.

[RLC35]

Here is a example I found among my Farthings.

[Peckris]

The last 2+A currency example that I saw on the market was UNC with good lustre and sold for around £300. A full lustre example in the Oxford collection sold for £425 and this was some time ago... the proofs go for nearer the £100 mark in high grade.

Each to their own but the proof will do the job for me just as an example of these dies.

Wow, that's a dramatic turnaround! It must be because all the proofs are in high grade, where the currency strikes mostly won't be - I'll bet the 2+A currency in VF doesn't fetch so very much.

[Varietalis]

The last 2+A currency example that I saw on the market was UNC with good lustre and sold for around £300. A full lustre example in the Oxford collection sold for £425 and this was some time ago... the proofs go for nearer the £100 mark in high grade.

Each to their own but the proof will do the job for me just as an example of these dies.

Wow, that's a dramatic turnaround! It must be because all the proofs are in high grade, where the currency strikes mostly won't be - I'll bet the 2+A currency in VF doesn't fetch so very much.

CGS put a value of £10 on UIN18519 which looks to me like a pretty decent VF. Judging by the UIN number I'd say that it was graded in late 2011. Almost three years on and a toned VF is still the only one on their books. I'd say that their £10 valuation is starting to look a little harsh.

[Colin G.]

I sold a solid EF with lustre traces earlier this year for £30, also the thing to bear in mind is that I would expect not too many people would slab such a modern coin of that type of value.

[declanwmagee]

I sold a cracker last year for £50!

What a twit.

[damian1986]

I haven't seen many 2+A currency issues in any grade to be honest with you - I thought they only went out in the plastic sets so I assumed that there were actually fewer minted than the proofs.

[declanwmagee]

Here's the one I sold - definitely currency, and the only one that has ever passed through my hands...

http://www.declanmageecoins.co.uk/E2F.html#2+A

[Peckris]

I haven't seen many 2+A currency issues in any grade to be honest with you - I thought they only went out in the plastic sets so I assumed that there were actually fewer minted than the proofs.

Many more plastic sets were minted than proof sets. One million versus 40,000? In either case, the proportion of 2+A is currently unknown?

Here's the one I sold - definitely currency, and the only one that has ever passed through my hands...

http://www.declanmageecoins.co.uk/E2F.html#2+A

Interesting, that 2+A. On both its obverse and reverse the dots / teeth appear to be smaller than on the other 2's and A's pictured. Also, the reverse legend and wren's feet look thinner.

[damian1986]

Many more plastic sets were minted than proof sets. One million versus 40,000? In either case, the proportion of 2+A is currently unknown?

Good point I didn't realise so many more were issued. The proportion is unknown to me. Maybe it is just a case of far fewer currency issues having survived in high grade then.

[Peckris]

Many more plastic sets were minted than proof sets. One million versus 40,000? In either case, the proportion of 2+A is currently unknown?

Good point I didn't realise so many more were issued. The proportion is unknown to me. Maybe it is just a case of far fewer currency issues having survived in high grade then.

Yes, that's probably the case.

[Colin G.]

It is the 1A farthings that are believed to have only come from specimen sets, I would take an educated guess on the rarity ratings (based on Freeman ratings) of 1953 farthings as:

1A - N

1B - R4

2A - R6

2A Proof - R10

2B - C

2B Proof - R6

However for the reasons mentioned above many people prefer to limit collecting to circulation issues, so whilst the proofs may have a lower mintage, the target market is substantially reduced.

Does anyone have any definitive data on the number of specimen sets issued?

[declanwmagee]

Every 1+B I've ever found (and that's only 3) has come out of a plastic set. Just thought I'd throw that in.

[Peckris]

Every 1+B I've ever found (and that's only 3) has come out of a plastic set. Just thought I'd throw that in.

I got mine from Ian Murray at the Midland for 50p. I have the feeling he knew what it was too.

[Peter]

I bought a mint North 1 from the Midland for £10,

Amazing bargains to be had.

[Gary1000]

Mine I have listed as EF and I'm sure I only paid a few pounds for it. Although the mintage may have been greater than for the proof most proofs still exist whereas most of the currency strike have likely been melted. So it wouldn't surprise me if the currency 2+A is far rarer.

[Peckris]

Mine I have listed as EF and I'm sure I only paid a few pounds for it. Although the mintage may have been greater than for the proof most proofs still exist whereas most of the currency strike have likely been melted. So it wouldn't surprise me if the currency 2+A is far rarer.

Do you think that's so? I'd be surprised - the demonetisation of the farthing was trailed for quite some time, was a unique event at the time being years before decimalisation, and being such a near worthless denomination, people could well afford to put aside as many as they wanted. For example, the 1956 was quite a low mintage and listed as a 'key date' in the 60s, but it's not even scarce! There were copious amounts of farthings available for pence in the late 60s, which implies that a massive amount were saved from the melting pot.

They weren't rounded up as part of the decimalisation melt either.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Peckris

[copper123]

I really am sure there are quite a few of these coins to be found right now if you are in the know.

I bet many a in the know farthing collector has picked one of these out of a rumage box for say 50p or so , i am sure if all the existing coins were gone through a lot would come on the market and the price would come down.

I am also sure this will not happen overnight so it will be a gradual process with the coin becoming slightly more common every year.

Only if the number of collectors increases rapidly will the coins rise in value.

Colin is at least trying to do that for us i surpose.

I would guess most around are in gvf + grade due to the short time they circulated.

Most that were minted are still in existance now i would think , well prob 60% anyway

[Gary1000]

I really am sure there are quite a few of these coins to be found right now if you are in the know.

I bet many a in the know farthing collector has picked one of these out of a rumage box for say 50p or so , i am sure if all the existing coins were gone through a lot would come on the market and the price would come down.

I am also sure this will not happen overnight so it will be a gradual process with the coin becoming slightly more common every year.

Only if the number of collectors increases rapidly will the coins rise in value.

Colin is at least trying to do that for us i surpose.

I would guess most around are in gvf + grade due to the short time they circulated.

Most that were minted are still in existance now i would think , well prob 60% anyway

When was it recognised as a vairety. If it was sometime after demonetisation, the plastic set would have been saved but little else. As collectors we obviously come across bucket loads of farthings but compared to the mintages it's really a piddling amount.