brg5658 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I thought a few of you here may find this token interesting. It was originally created as an advertising piece for Robert Lovett, Junior (a well known private US die sinker of the mid-1800's), and modeled after the Pistrucci design of St. George slaying the dragon made famous on the British sovereigns. This little token is almost assuredly among the smallest of all of the merchant tokens of the era. Coming in at only 15 mm in diameter, most of these were struck in German silver, with brass and copper much less common. Regardless of the metal composition, these are quite difficult to find in general, and downright tough to find in uncirculated condition. They are also quite "spendy" for their small size. After nearly 3.5 years of searching, I recently added this lovely example to my horse-themed collection. I'm providing an array of images below to show the state of preservation but also to give you a frame of reference for the small size of this token. The 15 mm diameter is half-way between the diameter of the 3 cent silver (14mm) and the silver half dime (15.9mm) issues of the USA (sorry this frame of reference is to USA coins -- it's the best I have for now). Cheers,-Brandon ====================================== Quote
Peckris Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Interesting one, this. It's as near as you can get to a direct copy without actually being one. I assume the Royal Mint held/holds the copyright to Pistrucci's original, so it's interesting to know what the reaction to this would have been? Quote
Chris Perkins Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 The RM seem to use the Pistrucci St George whenever they don't want the hassle of having to pay a living artist for a new design (most of which are nowhere near as good as a Pistrucci). However, I would imagine that the current copyright rule of artist death +70 years means that anyone could potentially use it now. And I think back then the rules were different and it may have been only during the life of the artist (if at all) and Pistrucci having died in 1855, there would probably not have been an issue with its use in 1859. Lovett may well have used his version knowing that Pistrucci had died and his copyright with him. Quote
Paulus Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It's another great token from BRG, I'm just wondering why they would want to use George and the Dragon on a US merchant token - or am I being stupid, perhaps back then, as now, links back to good ol Blighty were good marketing? Quote
Peckris Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It's another great token from BRG, I'm just wondering why they would want to use George and the Dragon on a US merchant token - or am I being stupid, perhaps back then, as now, links back to good ol Blighty were good marketing?Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that? Quote
Paulus Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It's another great token from BRG, I'm just wondering why they would want to use George and the Dragon on a US merchant token - or am I being stupid, perhaps back then, as now, links back to good ol Blighty were good marketing?Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that?That may well be so, but the US market will associate it with the UK surely, and would have done back then too? Quote
HistoricCoinage Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that?Turkey & Georgia? Quote
Peckris Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that?Turkey & Georgia?Wikipedia says Georgia, also Cappadocia and Libya too. Quote
TomGoodheart Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 It's another great token from BRG, I'm just wondering why they would want to use George and the Dragon on a US merchant token - or am I being stupid, perhaps back then, as now, links back to good ol Blighty were good marketing?Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that?That may well be so, but the US market will associate it with the UK surely, and would have done back then too?Maybe it just worked as a complex image that showed off the engraver's skill? The fact that it was (presumably) a recognisable image might even have been an advantage, giving recipients a chance to decide if it was a good rendition or not? Quote
Debbie Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I like the idea of a horse themed collection Brandon. Quote
brg5658 Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 It's another great token from BRG, I'm just wondering why they would want to use George and the Dragon on a US merchant token - or am I being stupid, perhaps back then, as now, links back to good ol Blighty were good marketing?Except that George and the Dragon is not British in origin - is it Maltese or something like that?That may well be so, but the US market will associate it with the UK surely, and would have done back then too?Maybe it just worked as a complex image that showed off the engraver's skill? The fact that it was (presumably) a recognisable image might even have been an advantage, giving recipients a chance to decide if it was a good rendition or not?I agree with the assessment above in red. The Lovett family was a highly talented group of engravers in the mid to late 1800's in the USA. To see the level of skill required to engrave such an incredibly small rendition of Saint George and the Dragon on this copper token is stunning in hand. It's honestly a work of art, and I think it would have been seen as such around 1860 when it was executed. Remember, this was a private enterprise 150 years ago -- my brain can't even quite fathom how such levels of detail and accuracy were feasible at that time. Quote
Rob Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) At least they had the ability to magnify in the 19th century. Just think how difficult it must have been 2000 years ago to engrave some of the tiny Celtic pieces that are maybe half the diameter.This is 8mm top to bottom, less than that in the horizontal direction. Edited June 27, 2014 by Rob Quote
Peckris Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 At least they had the ability to magnify in the 19th century. Just think how difficult it must have been 2000 years ago to engrave some of the tiny Celtic pieces that are maybe half the diameter.This is 8mm top to bottom, less than that in the horizontal direction.If you think that's amazing (which it is) what about these on a tiny Ephesos bronze? Sorry they are so small (not much bigger than lifesize, scans) but the engraving of a bee on one side, and a stag on the other, are exquisite. Quote
josie Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Posting...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George Quote
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