Let's See Your Copper Coins, Tokens, Or Medals!

[Rob]

Sorry, no wiser. Doesn't make sense anyway.

[Debbie]

Of course it doesn't it's Peter's post.....

Actually I think it means that Scott sniffs and digs up some rarities, probably where most wouldn't bother to look.

[Peckris]

Of course it doesn't it's Peter's post.....

Actually I think it means that Scott sniffs and digs up some rarities, probably where most wouldn't bother to look.

That was my thought exactly.

[Rob]

I thought it was yet another acronym

[brg5658]

I picked up two new Civil War Tokens in the Heritage Long Beach auction. These were emergency money issued during the years 1860-1865 in the USA when hoarding took most of the small change out of circulation. The first is a store card for the pharmacist Thomas Brimelow (died in 1916 at the age of 80). The second is a patriotic token with a typo (BY instead of BE) -- and with a very strong strike for the issue. Both tokens have what I considered to be great eye appeal and some lovely toning. Sorry for the scuffed slabs...they came that way and I had no luck buffing them out. The rarities listed are those using Fuld's scale.

Cheers, Brandon

[Coppers]

Well done. Both are nice tokens.

[scott]

stumbled across this one, I have had a while 4+E with some die damage to E in REG and F in F:D

[Peter]

Scott T Dog is the clue

[brg5658]

Ok, here are three other Civil War Tokens I picked up at a Brick and Mortar on my road trip to see family a couple weeks ago.

1) NGC got the 208 obverse die attribution wrong, as they called it 207. I didn't care about their mis-attribution all that much, as the token speaks for itself. The eye appeal was off the charts, and this one just glows in hand. Also, the 410 reverse die usually doesn't come this nicely struck up, so that was a selling point.

2) The 442 "NEW YORK" reverse die strike is weak, but I particularly liked the misaligned reverse die and the overall eye appeal of the token otherwise. Also, given the price I paid for this one at $60, I'd buy CW tokens of this caliber all day long.

Edited October 8, 2014 by brg5658

[brg5658]

3) The D.L. Wing store card is undergraded in my opinion by 2 points, and it has great eye appeal. I also liked the centering-dot and the "UNION FLOUR" theme on the reverse (store card die #1372).

Cheers,

-Brandon

[Peter]

Nice Brandon

I like the idea of a Civil War token.

How do you record or store your tokens?

[azda]

3) The D.L. Wing store card is undergraded in my opinion by 2 points, and it has great eye appeal. I also liked the centering-dot and the "UNION FLOUR" theme on the reverse (store card die #1372).

Cheers,

-Brandon

I've never understood how someone can work out why a coin could be umdergraded/overgraded 1-2-3 points, sorry, not being antagonisitic but how do you work out a 1 point difference in a grade?

[brg5658]

3) The D.L. Wing store card is undergraded in my opinion by 2 points, and it has great eye appeal. I also liked the centering-dot and the "UNION FLOUR" theme on the reverse (store card die #1372).

Cheers,

-Brandon

I've never understood how someone can work out why a coin could be umdergraded/overgraded 1-2-3 points, sorry, not being antagonisitic but how do you work out a 1 point difference in a grade?

Experience.

[Peter]

Brandon

You must be spending all your pension

[Paulus]

I would bet that Brandon does very well on any coins he sells (if he does), he has a good eye judging by what he posts on here and his photography is unbelievably good (even through slabs!)

[azda]

3) The D.L. Wing store card is undergraded in my opinion by 2 points, and it has great eye appeal. I also liked the centering-dot and the "UNION FLOUR" theme on the reverse (store card die #1372).

Cheers,

-Brandon

I've never understood how someone can work out why a coin could be umdergraded/overgraded 1-2-3 points, sorry, not being antagonisitic but how do you work out a 1 point difference in a grade?

Experience.

Can you point out the 2 point Gap in your coin?

[brg5658]

3) The D.L. Wing store card is undergraded in my opinion by 2 points, and it has great eye appeal. I also liked the centering-dot and the "UNION FLOUR" theme on the reverse (store card die #1372).

Cheers,

-Brandon

I've never understood how someone can work out why a coin could be umdergraded/overgraded 1-2-3 points, sorry, not being antagonisitic but how do you work out a 1 point difference in a grade?

Experience.

Can you point out the 2 point Gap in your coin?

Yep I sure can.

[azda]

Sorry, i was waiting on you to elaborate.

[Peckris]

Sorry, i was waiting on you to elaborate.

Yeah, I was too. The reply offered seems a tad 'smart alec'.

[brg5658]

Sorry, i was waiting on you to elaborate.

Yeah, I was too. The reply offered seems a tad 'smart alec'.

I grade coins using the American Numismatic Association (ANA) grading standards. For UNC coins, the standards are below for grades MS60-65. For the token I posted that NGC graded MS62, I believe they were a bit harsh. It doesn't exhibit any of the flaws that would bring the grade down to MS62 in my opinion. Yes, it's a division of the minuscule, but I can tell the difference between an MS62 and MS64 quality coin. I admit freely that all of this splitting of hairs in USA grading is subjective, but having been collecting US copper for more than 20 years, and viewed hundreds of graded coppers -- the "look" of an MS62 coin vs. an MS64 coin is quite apparent. All of this being said, I do not ever get hung up on the numerical grade on a slab's label. If I like a coin and the price is right, then I purchase it. I'm always happy to purchase a particularly nice coin in a lower numeric grade plastic holder because the dealers usually price it accordingly (and you can get some really good deals). Knowledge is power in this hobby...

==================

MS-65 - Shows an attractive high quality of luster and strike for the date and mint. A few small scattered contact marks, or two larger marks may be present, and one or two small patches of hairlines may show under magnification. Noticeable light scuff marks may show on the high points of the design. Overall quality is above average and overall eye appeal is very pleasing. Copper coins have full luster with original or darkened color as appropriate.

MS-64 - Has at least average luster and strike for the type. Several small contact marks in groups, as well as one or two moderately heavy marks may be present. One or two mall patches of hairlines may show under low magnification. Noticeable light scuff marks or defects might be seen within the design or in the field. Attractive overall quality with a pleasing eye appeal. Copper coins may be slightly dull. Color should be appropriate.

MS-63 - Mint luster may be slightly impaired. Numerous small contact marks, and a few scattered heavy marks may be seen. Small hairlines are visible without magnification. Several detracting scuff marks or defects may be present throughout the design or in the fields. The general quality is about average, but overall the coin is rather attractive. Copper pieces may be darkened or dull. Color should be appropriate.

MS-62 - An impaired or dull luster may be evident. Clusters of small marks may be present throughout with a few large marks or nicks in prime focal areas. Hairlines may be very noticeable. Large unattractive scuff-marks might be seen on major features. The strike, rim and planchet quality may be noticeably below average. Overall eye-appeal is generally acceptable. Copper coins will show a diminished color and tone.

MS-61 - Mint luster may be diminished or noticeably impaired, and the surface has clusters of small contact marks throughout. Hairlines could be very noticeable. Scuff-marks may show as unattractive patches on large areas or major features. Small rim nicks, striking or planchet defects may show, and the quality may be noticeably poor. Eye appeal is somewhat unattractive. Copper pieces will be generally dull, dark and possibly spotted.

MS-60 - Unattractive, dull or washed out mint luster may mark this coin. There may be many large detracting contact marks, or damage spots, but absolutely no trace of wear. There could be a heavy concentration of hairlines, or unattractive large areas of scuff-marks. Rim nicks may be present, and eye appeal is very poor. Copper coins may be dark, dull and spotted.

[azda]

if you believe its below standards then why not break it out and send to PCGS? Also, how do do you know that the 2 point difference was'nt already taken into comsideration by ANA?

Edited October 12, 2014 by azda

[brg5658]

if you believe its below standards then why not break it out and send to PCGS? Also, how do do you know that the 2 point difference was'nt already taken into comsideration by ANA?

I am not sure how to be more clear. I don't care about the grade that much and am not going to waste the money to send it in to PCGS. Also, PCGS doesn't know much of anything about Civil War Tokens as they just started grading them in the past year. NGC has been grading them for 20+ years.

ANA standards are what we Yankees use for grading coins. It is very different from the UK system, yes. As I have already said before though I collect what I like...and I like this token and the price was fair regardless of what the label says the grade is.

[azda]

But is'nt the grading attributions above the same for all american TPGs? In essence, they should in theory ALL grade it the same irrespective of what yoir coin/token actually is?

[brg5658]

But is'nt the grading attributions above the same for all american TPGs? In essence, they should in theory ALL grade it the same irrespective of what yoir coin/token actually is?

No. NGC and PCGS both use their own grading standards, which vary slightly from the official ANA standards.

Let's not derail this thread onto yet another USA coin grading tangent. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill in a small little comment I made about my opinions on a token's grade. Let's move on...

[azda]

I'm not. You said you can differentiate between a 2 point grade and i was only interested in how you can come to the assumption. Grading between compabies intrugies me and i thought PCGS was the norm fcr american slabbers