Portcullis Varieties On Decimal Penny

[Cliff]

Would like your opinions please.  Don't think wear or die fill would take out all the rivets equally?!?!?  Rev strike may be a bit soft as edges are n't too well struck up?

[davidrj]

Grease fill ??

[Cliff]

On 4/11/2017 at 7:14 PM, davidrj said:

Grease fill ??

Thanks for the response - suppose if grease was going to stick anywhere it would be in the small indentations needed for the rivets and border beads.  Do you have any suggestions for the lines across the middle of all the horizontal bars of the portcullis?  They don't show on my close ups, only on the full Rev shot (when zoomed up a bit). I've had a play at trying to replicate the shot but without success to date.  Think they may have something to do with my cocked eyed photographic skills(?) or highlighting my lack of. 

 

[Cliff]

Have now seen several examples of the line across the horizontal portcullis bars.  It doesn't seem present on all coins/dates but I'm too far down the bottle to start counting! 

[Guest Tel1958]

I have just finished going through 2400 pennies, ooooh my eyes, lol. Anyway, further to Dave's findings, I can also add the following -

1986 through to 1994 has both Type 1 & 2

I found 1986 - 1990 Type 2's and a 1992 Type 1.

I also checked all the 1/2p's I have, (48), and they are all the same. Only a small number to check, but no variants found.

[bhx7]

3 hours ago, Guest Tel1958 said:

I have just finished going through 2400 pennies, ooooh my eyes, lol. Anyway, further to Dave's findings, I can also add the following -

1986 through to 1994 has both Type 1 & 2

I found 1986 - 1990 Type 2's and a 1992 Type 1.

I also checked all the 1/2p's I have, (48), and they are all the same. Only a small number to check, but no variants found.

Tel read back on the threads you will find lots more information. 

[magp]

Hi folks - have been enjoying reading your discussion! The gap between the portcullis and crossbar was a new one on me.

I started looking at microvarieties a month ago after finding Tony Clayton's website: http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/coins.html

You guys found 110, 113 and 109 beads around the reverse. Here's my 800+ pence-worth of observations on the obverses...

5 obverse border beading microvarieties on the 1p

Spink #B1: Second Portrait
1971, 73-76: 111 beads and first D points at bead
77-81: still 111 beads but first D points between beads

Sp#B2: Second Portrait, now "ONE PENNY"
1982-84: still 111 beads and first D points between beads

Sp#B3: Third Portrait 
1985 only: 112 beads
1986-88: 109 beads
1989 only: 110 beads
1990-91: back to 109 beads 

Sp#B4: Third Portrait, now copper-plated steel
1992-97: still 109 beads

Sp#B5: Fourth Portrait
1998-99: 115 beads
2000-08: back to 110 beads

I just gotta wonder why...!

Haven't found multiple varieties in a year - yet. Will be back with annotated photos and frequencies when I get a chance. 

Cheers,
Sam

[scott]

the 1985 obverse, to me, seems to be different from the later ones on all the coins, text seems thinner, beads, even the strike seems different.

[magp]

Interesting - think I see this on the best of my 1985s too. Maybe slightly smaller beads and shallower text.

Sam

[bhx7]

Hi All

Here is an updated chart of of my findings on the Portcullis Decimal Penny. There are variants which I haven't found but mentioned in David Grooms book. This is a continuation of my research since my article published in Coin News last year. This is circulated varieties only. Proofs and BU are a whole new ball game.

Hope it is of help to some

[zookeeperz]

Did you find many 1999 with a inherent strike flaw in front of Elizabeth's Nose spreading across to the rim? the flaws are on the cheek ,behind the head and the truncation. Identical in every way.

[bhx7]

18 minutes ago, zookeeperz said:

Did you find many 1999 with a inherent strike flaw in front of Elizabeth's Nose spreading across to the rim? the flaws are on the cheek ,behind the head and the truncation. Identical in every way.

Will have a look as I still have a load bagged up.

 

[bhx7]

Well I have just looked at 37x1999 pennies and haven't found one like that so far. I know I have some more so will look later.

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by bhx7

[Guest curly]

ive come across what could be quit a rare 1992 bronze penny. as far as i can tell all the uncirculated pennys in sets had the dot rivet on the portcullis . i have found one with circle rivets ! could anyone enlighten me ?

[Mr T]

Got a picture?

[Guest curly]

sorry i dont know how to put pictures on to the site . but it is a proof one penny 1992 and none magnetic so its bronze and it has circle rivets . ive looked around and i cant find another they all have dot rivets . any ideas how rare it could be ?

[Jason Renaud]

I have had the opportunity to go through 33 proof 1998 pennies.  Of this group there were:

26 Type 1 reverse C
7 Type 2 reverse C

Within the 26 Type 1 there were 8 doubled die obverse.  They were all the same doubled die which mostly showed as extra thickness and small notches on "IRB".

[jelida]

2 hours ago, Jason Renaud said:

I have had the opportunity to go through 33 proof 1998 pennies.  Of this group there were:

26 Type 1 reverse C
7 Type 2 reverse C

Within the 26 Type 1 there were 8 doubled die obverse.  They were all the same doubled die which mostly showed as extra thickness and small notches on "IRB".

Well done, not my field but a useful addition to the corpus of knowledge.

Jerry