Another Odd One

[Coinery]

So, your real ebay name is: fotirips67ku

Nope, a million miles out...it does have the words 'coin' in it!

[declanwmagee]

No I don't think so either...

More like the left than like the right....

[Coinery]

No I don't think so either...

More like the left than like the right....

Is mine the middle one?

Edit: aye, I should've let Trac buy it!

Edited August 26, 2013 by Coinery

[Peckris]

It will make my day if it is not an open 3 but this the link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370880652862?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649

NOT an open 3 - and it would be the finest known if it was!! So relax..

[tracyaw]

Thank goodness. Anyway, I have spotted (probably a million miles off) low trident prong 1922. I don't want to post a link incase anyone has their eye on it, but if you do want a link please let me know.

[tracyaw]

I'll buy it off you for a £1.00 Coinery

[Peckris]

Thank goodness. Anyway, I have spotted (probably a million miles off) low trident prong 1922. I don't want to post a link incase anyone has their eye on it, but if you do want a link please let me know.

If you mean "1922 with 1927 reverse", those are MEGA rare. The chances of spotting one online and no-one else spotting it, is about as likely as Dave turning out for the England football team

[Coinery]

It will make my day if it is not an open 3 but this the link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370880652862?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2649

NOT an open 3 - and it would be the finest known if it was!! So relax..

Finest known jumped to my excited heart for a couple of mins too! I thought for a last min snipe, whilst painting the boat, brush in one hand, phone in the other, it was worth a pop!

[tracyaw]

I'll post a pic, and see if its the famed one:

Get your kit ready Dave

[declanwmagee]

Another comparison photo required for this one, I think. Normal to the left, Accumulators example of the rarity to the right. Yours is in the middle Tracy.

It's all in the thumb. On the rarity, the thumb is on the diagonal line, while on the other two, it's much closer to St George's Cross.

[Gary1000]

The gap between the shield and the rim should be a dead give away.

[Peckris]

The gap between the shield and the rim should be a dead give away.

The rim itself is also a dead giveaway - it's broad on the rare one, where the rim on the normal 1922 is the usual narrow one you see on all GV penny reverses from 1913 to 1926. Tracy's is the normal width.

But always worth looking out and checking here!

[tracyaw]

I have looked at all 3 images above and cannot see any real difference where the thumbs are placed, so I doubt I could spot it that way, but I could probably spot one through the rim difference. I would have thought the lower trident is the most obvious. A couple of other things about the 1922, how can an earlier penny have a future penny obverse. And why does that dot on the trident comand such a high value? Many coins have flaws and dots and other minor oddities and they have no value.

Lets take the Gouby X as another example,the a I in Brittt points to a tooth, and it becomes a major find and valuable, but a 4 in a 1944 is points to a tooth and is of no interest. Is it because the ones that have a value have been catalogued by experts?

Thanks in advance for light thrown on these questions

[declanwmagee]

The difference is in the relative scarcity.

V.R. Court's survey put the Gouby X at 0.8% of 23m 1911s, where as the scarcer 1944 he found to be 16.6% of 42.6m 1944s.

So on the basis of those figures, he reckons 188,000 Gouby Xs produced, against more than 7m of the 1944 variety. So for every Gouby X, there's nearly 38 of the other.

[tracyaw]

Ah thanks Declan, so it is down to the survey data findings.

[Coinery]

Ah thanks Declan, so it is down to the survey data findings.

And supply and demand!

[declanwmagee]

Ah thanks Declan, so it is down to the survey data findings.

Well, that's just one survey - I used it to indicate what penny collectors just know - a Gouby X is much harder to find. That survey just gave it some numbers; 38 times harder!

[Peckris]

I have looked at all 3 images above and cannot see any real difference where the thumbs are placed, so I doubt I could spot it that way, but I could probably spot one through the rim difference. I would have thought the lower trident is the most obvious. A couple of other things about the 1922, how can an earlier penny have a future penny obverse. And why does that dot on the trident comand such a high value? Many coins have flaws and dots and other minor oddities and they have no value.

Lets take the Gouby X as another example,the a I in Brittt points to a tooth, and it becomes a major find and valuable, but a 4 in a 1944 is points to a tooth and is of no interest. Is it because the ones that have a value have been catalogued by experts?

Thanks in advance for light thrown on these questions

You mean 'reverse', not 'obverse', right? That question is one that we agonised over a year or two ago. We never did come to a conclusion, but you're right - how does a reverse that was used in 1927 (though some might argue that the 1927 reverse was a modified version of it) first appear in 1922? There were no pennies 1923-25 of course, and the mintage in 1926 was quite low, but even so, it's a bit of a mystery.

One possibility is that the first experiments on a new reverse were in 1922, and weren't intended for circulation. There were no pennies needed for a few years, and almost immediately after that, a new issue of nearly all denominations in 1927-28.

[Rob]

A number of oddballs were struck in 1923 and 1924 such as the nickel shillings etc. The early 1920s was clearly a period when a number of changes were either mooted or implemented. Following on from the changeover from 925 to 500 silver, we also see a redesign of the portraits to eliminate ghosting and a number of private patterns were produced for sixpences (see the Alfred Bole collection) along with larger silver denominations struck in gold. The engraving of a new penny reverse would be entirely in keeping with the experimentation seen elsewhere.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Rob

[tracyaw]

Thanks Peckris and Rob. I meant reverse, yes Hmm, the no mintage 1924, 25, and low mintage of 1926 makes sense.

[Peter]

Thanks Peckris and Rob. I meant reverse, yes Hmm, the no mintage 1924, 25, and low mintage of 1926 makes sense.

I will take your 1923 off you

[Coinery]

These guys are good aren't they? Even though I've been here a few years, I still marvel at the knowledge and helpfulness of the people on this forum, I hope you'll stay onboard, you've got some decent queries going on!

[tracyaw]

OK Peter, you can have it for what Coinery paid for that damn fine open 3 the other day

Thanks Coinery, I am learning so much too, and it's fun

[Coinery]

OK Peter, you can have it for what Coinery paid for that damn fine open 3 the other day

Thanks Coinery, I am learning so much too, and it's fun

Hey, £5 was OK?

[tracyaw]

A 1922 Trident 'dot' on ebay listed for the price £1,669.99

Is this a realistic price? I am quite bemused

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1922-Trident-DOT-George-V-Penny-from-Great-Britain-GEF-Excessively-Rare-/281153067012?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item4176075804