Fake in an NGC Slab!

[Coinery]

I've HAD one of these, and seen around 4, one at the last W&W sale in a lot I bought (was kindly credited)! The gouge through the crown is standard on this copy, unless of course this is the original?

230851403945

[Coinery]

I've HAD one of these, and seen around 4, one at the last W&W sale in a lot I bought (was kindly credited)! The gouge through the crown is standard on this copy, unless of course this is the original?

230851403945

My pictures:

The other example I saw at W&W was much sharper, as good all over as the bottom left-hand quadrant of the reverse.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Coinery

[Coinery]

Link to the ebay NGC coin http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851403945;jsessionid=634E8DD61049C3EFC884221EDF875F9F?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D230851403945%26_rdc%3D1

[copper123]

Just shows really , most slabbed coins are not to be trusted - there are are a few names to trust , but american's and not me know who they are

[numismatist]

Nice its got that gouge on the crown, it would be nice if every fake

had such a prominent mark to identify it. Only good thing is that its

so expensive, (I think 5 times its value even if it was genuine ) that

hopefully the seller wont be able to find a mug to buy it.

[azda]

I think the whole thing is more worrying for the slab collectors. They would'nt dare liberate it so really won't know any better and basically keep it until they in turn come to sell it. I just wonder now how fake slabs are going to affect the TPGs market and what they're going to do to combat it. Without pictures of authenticity plus serial they might be on a sticky wicket.

[copper123]

Funny thing is they even got the clipped thing wrong

It is not clipped and in that state (if genuine ) would be a lovely example.

If only worth £60- £100 , as has been already stated

[Coinery]

I think the whole thing is more worrying for the slab collectors. They would'nt dare liberate it so really won't know any better and basically keep it until they in turn come to sell it. I just wonder now how fake slabs are going to affect the TPGs market and what they're going to do to combat it. Without pictures of authenticity plus serial they might be on a sticky wicket.

This is the worrying thing, they have! NGC actually have the image of the fake on their website. The only glimmer of hope they have is that this is the original the fakes were cast from. Actually it can't be the original, as my fake has more outer-edge beading at the E&T of Elizabeth...hung, drawn & quartered!

I've just realised it's the ebay coin 30/06/12 from the thread "Elizabeth Fake Groat on eBay" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hammered-Groat-Elizabeth-I-Elizabeth-1-British-Tudor-Elizabeth-i-42-/320933281810?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=cCzk6X4balcL%2F1rvoWDuCX2BHjA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

NGC are over for me!

[azda]

So the New seller bought it, shipped to NGC had it slabbed and stuck another 250 quid on it?

[numismatist]

Well spotted "Coinery" I see continental.coin ( the present seller ) was the buyer at

just under £50.00, and now its slabbed its gone to over £300.00.

[azda]

Well spotted "Coinery" I see continental.coin ( the present seller ) was the buyer at

just under £50.00, and now its slabbed its gone to over £300.00.

Ah ha, so NGC know sweet FA about what they're slabbing in other words

[azda]

I think the whole thing is more worrying for the slab collectors. They would'nt dare liberate it so really won't know any better and basically keep it until they in turn come to sell it. I just wonder now how fake slabs are going to affect the TPGs market and what they're going to do to combat it. Without pictures of authenticity plus serial they might be on a sticky wicket.

This is the worrying thing, they have! NGC actually have the image of the fake on their website. The only glimmer of hope they have is that this is the original the fakes were cast from. Actually it can't be the original, as my fake has more outer-edge beading at the E&T of Elizabeth...hung, drawn & quartered!

I've just realised it's the ebay coin 30/06/12 from the thread "Elizabeth Fake Groat on eBay" http://www.ebay.co.u...cvip=true&rt=nc

NGC are over for me!

Our very own argentumancoins (John) has sold to this guy as well. Wonder if he's gonna sell it onwards, page 3 of FB (Ireland 1604-7 James I Sixpence, Rose mm, bent flan. (#261071692744)

Nothing untowards with John i might add, just curious if he's buying to make more cash, or if he's selling off more fakes and replacing them with genuine and cheaper articles

[Coinery]

Well spotted "Coinery" I see continental.coin ( the present seller ) was the buyer at

just under £50.00, and now its slabbed its gone to over £300.00.

Ah ha, so NGC know sweet FA about what they're slabbing in other words

The saddest thing of all is that this is a glaring fake in-hand, really obvious edges, thicker, and soapy enough to take a shower with!

You've got to feel sorry for the eventual new owner because, as you said (and maybe this is part of NGC's gameplan), who's going to break it out and 'chance-it'?

[azda]

Well spotted "Coinery" I see continental.coin ( the present seller ) was the buyer at

just under £50.00, and now its slabbed its gone to over £300.00.

Ah ha, so NGC know sweet FA about what they're slabbing in other words

The saddest thing of all is that this is a glaring fake in-hand, really obvious edges, thicker, and soapy enough to take a shower with!

You've got to feel sorry for the eventual new owner because, as you said (and maybe this is part of NGC's gameplan), who's going to break it out and 'chance-it'?

Best you can do is watch it and see if someone buys it, or send NGC a detailed email about the slab and hope that they'll change the details on their website and list it as fake?

Edited September 21, 2012 by azda

[Coinery]

Best you can do is watch it and see if someone buys it, or send NGC a detailed email about the slab and hope that they'll change the details on their website and list it as fake?

They'd be out-of-pocket and have a damaged reputation if they did that. Makes you wonder, though, how many successful claims are made against these companies for 'shocking performances,' and how it all just 'goes away' quietly?

[Rob]

Link to the ebay NGC coin http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851403945;jsessionid=634E8DD61049C3EFC884221EDF875F9F?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D230851403945%26_rdc%3D1

Luckily for the people living in the following countries - Africa, Russian Federation, Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine the seller is not willing to flood the market with the copies.

Leaving aside the question of NGC's competence which it appears is a given, I actually wonder about the seller here. We have a listing that is priced in US$. The location of the item is Paris. The ebay id has a stop in the middle of the name which is very reminiscent of a number of Yorkshire and Lancashire based purveyors of this crap who ebay refused to deal with. Can't help wondering if there is a connection. Lots of things have been bought from China too.

Given the coin has been physically handled prior to submission and they obviously feel and look wrong, any person submitting a coin will know that a pitted flan will lead to an environmental damage label, so the only reason to submit to the TPG is to accord the coin a genuine status - something which the Negligent Grading Committee have duly obliged. It now has an official seal of approval. I always wondered why the American TPGs withdrew their guarantees on world coins, but I thought they would still guarantee a coin as genuine. Methinks a large pointy hat with a big D on the front is appropriate.

[azda]

Link to the ebay NGC coin http://www.ebay.co.u...3945%26_rdc%3D1

Luckily for the people living in the following countries - Africa, Russian Federation, Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine the seller is not willing to flood the market with the copies.

Leaving aside the question of NGC's competence which it appears is a given, I actually wonder about the seller here. We have a listing that is priced in US$. The location of the item is Paris. The ebay id has a stop in the middle of the name which is very reminiscent of a number of Yorkshire and Lancashire based purveyors of this crap who ebay refused to deal with. Can't help wondering if there is a connection. Lots of things have been bought from China too.

Given the coin has been physically handled prior to submission and they obviously feel and look wrong, any person submitting a coin will know that a pitted flan will lead to an environmental damage label, so the only reason to submit to the TPG is to accord the coin a genuine status - something which the Negligent Grading Committee have duly obliged. It now has an official seal of approval. I always wondered why the American TPGs withdrew their guarantees on world coins, but I thought they would still guarantee a coin as genuine. Methinks a large pointy hat with a big D on the front is appropriate.

Why has he submitted this to NGC if he's in Paris, PCGS have an office in Paris now, why not send it there? Is he actually Fu Man Choo posing as a Frenchie?UPDATE..........Coin has been taken down

Edited September 21, 2012 by azda

[Peter]

That is incompetance.They should stick to modern US crap.I have a few "modern"slabbed coins (Victorian) from these boys.

They can now get stuffed.

[Coinery]

Link to the ebay NGC coin http://www.ebay.co.u...3945%26_rdc%3D1

Luckily for the people living in the following countries - Africa, Russian Federation, Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine the seller is not willing to flood the market with the copies.

Leaving aside the question of NGC's competence which it appears is a given, I actually wonder about the seller here. We have a listing that is priced in US$. The location of the item is Paris. The ebay id has a stop in the middle of the name which is very reminiscent of a number of Yorkshire and Lancashire based purveyors of this crap who ebay refused to deal with. Can't help wondering if there is a connection. Lots of things have been bought from China too.

Given the coin has been physically handled prior to submission and they obviously feel and look wrong, any person submitting a coin will know that a pitted flan will lead to an environmental damage label, so the only reason to submit to the TPG is to accord the coin a genuine status - something which the Negligent Grading Committee have duly obliged. It now has an official seal of approval. I always wondered why the American TPGs withdrew their guarantees on world coins, but I thought they would still guarantee a coin as genuine. Methinks a large pointy hat with a big D on the front is appropriate.

Why has he submitted this to NGC if he's in Paris, PCGS have an office in Paris now, why not send it there? Is he actually Fu Man Choo posing as a Frenchie?UPDATE..........Coin has been taken down

I had absolutely no idea the American's had withdrawn liability! Joe and his Aunt could slab on that basis!

Taken down? Now that would be something extraordinary if that was eBay led...I just can't see it, with TPG's being their future baby?

BONJOUR IF YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD!

Edited September 21, 2012 by Coinery

[Rob]

That is incompetance.They should stick to modern US crap.I have a few "modern"slabbed coins (Victorian) from these boys.

They can now get stuffed.

I've done very well in the past from their incompetence. They are alright as long as you do your homework, and as a bonus frequently screw up to the advantage of the observant. Mine's a pint.

[Rob]

Link to the ebay NGC coin http://www.ebay.co.u...3945%26_rdc%3D1

Luckily for the people living in the following countries - Africa, Russian Federation, Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Ukraine the seller is not willing to flood the market with the copies.

Leaving aside the question of NGC's competence which it appears is a given, I actually wonder about the seller here. We have a listing that is priced in US$. The location of the item is Paris. The ebay id has a stop in the middle of the name which is very reminiscent of a number of Yorkshire and Lancashire based purveyors of this crap who ebay refused to deal with. Can't help wondering if there is a connection. Lots of things have been bought from China too.

Given the coin has been physically handled prior to submission and they obviously feel and look wrong, any person submitting a coin will know that a pitted flan will lead to an environmental damage label, so the only reason to submit to the TPG is to accord the coin a genuine status - something which the Negligent Grading Committee have duly obliged. It now has an official seal of approval. I always wondered why the American TPGs withdrew their guarantees on world coins, but I thought they would still guarantee a coin as genuine. Methinks a large pointy hat with a big D on the front is appropriate.

Why has he submitted this to NGC if he's in Paris, PCGS have an office in Paris now, why not send it there? Is he actually Fu Man Choo posing as a Frenchie?UPDATE..........Coin has been taken down

I had absolutely no idea the American's had withdrawn liability! Joe and his Aunt could slab on that basis!

Taken down? Now that would be something extraordinary if that was eBay led...I just can see it, with TPG's being their future baby?

BONJOUR IF YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD!

I thought that both NGC and PCGS had restricted their liability to a nominal sum and the limit of the guarantee was that the coin was genuine. I may be wrong about the fine detail, but I know that there was a severe cutback in guarantees. This was discussed a while ago if anyone can find the thread.

[Peter]

That is incompetance.They should stick to modern US crap.I have a few "modern"slabbed coins (Victorian) from these boys.

They can now get stuffed.

I've done very well in the past from their incompetence. They are alright as long as you do your homework, and as a bonus frequently screw up to the advantage of the observant. Mine's a pint.

I think you must live in Baker Street I have picked up a few snippets over the years as a result of knowledge.

[azda]

Just goes to show, if you're a British coin collector, and a fan of slabs, then go with CGS.............Simple, you just cannot trust an American grade or slab now as the slabs are now being faked to.........Its a small warning for the future of this hobby, also a good heads up from Stuart (Coinery) just goes to show that when you know your onions it's good knowledge, so hats off to Stuart for picking up on this coin

Edited September 21, 2012 by azda

[Peter]

If you want an expert I think the forum caters nicely.

[azda]

If you want an expert I think the forum caters nicely.

Totally agree Peter, many people here who give their expert opinions and don't take any BS either. I for one am glad i joined this very forum 2 ish years ago, it's been a great learning curve, although hammered still eludes me