strange William III half crown

[wcsheldrake]

Hi, I have what looks like a William III half crown with some wierd differences. On the front is Gulielmus III Dei Gra. and what is I believe the third bust (looks like he has a mohawk.) There is a counterstrike on his cheek of what looks like a fishhook and a capital B on his throat. On the obverse is a large shield like thing with a winged dragon with dogs hind legs and chicken front feet and sitting on top of the shield is another dragon that looks more like a sea serpent. The edging is illegible. The coin or token or whatever it is is silver, weighs 13 grams and measures about 3.5cm across. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[azda]

To put it politely, it sounds like a mess, but a picture paints a thousand words.

[wcsheldrake]

here is a photo

[wcsheldrake]

and another

[argentumandcoins]

Hi, I have what looks like a William III half crown with some wierd differences. On the front is Gulielmus III Dei Gra. and what is I believe the third bust (looks like he has a mohawk.) There is a counterstrike on his cheek of what looks like a fishhook and a capital B on his throat. On the obverse is a large shield like thing with a winged dragon with dogs hind legs and chicken front feet and sitting on top of the shield is another dragon that looks more like a sea serpent. The edging is illegible. The coin or token or whatever it is is silver, weighs 13 grams and measures about 3.5cm across. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

It was a halfcrown on issue that has been skimmed and engraved on the reverse.

I am no expert on heraldry but it will be some family crest.

The counterpunches on the obverse will probably relate to the time of the engraving (which could be any date from 1750 through to 1850 judging by the style)

[Debbie]

Yes I was going to say that it looks like a “love token†to me. Where the reverse has been purposely erased, edge decorated and a new engraving done. No idea what the significance of the shield / dragon is though I’m afraid but I bet it had some unique and special meaning.

[DaveG38]

Welsh connection maybe?

[Peckris]

Yes I was going to say that it looks like a “love token†to me. Where the reverse has been purposely erased, edge decorated and a new engraving done. No idea what the significance of the shield / dragon is though I’m afraid but I bet it had some unique and special meaning.

I thought it would get your attention Debbie! That reverse is very nice.

[azda]

REV is nicely engraved and people do collect these, just ask Debbie.

[TomGoodheart]

It's a family coat of arms. The blazon is party per pale azure and gules a griffin en passant (shield in blue on the left and red on the right with a griffin walking on it) and the crest a sea horse naiant ( a sea horse lying down).

But which family ... I haven't managed to discover I'm afraid. Maybe the above might help..

Edited March 1, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[azda]

Wonder what the OBV counterstamped B means and whatever else is on the OBV.........

[wcsheldrake]

Many thanks for the help and please keep it coming!

Is it possible the engraving on the reverse was hand done, or was it stamped? And as far as identifying the coat of arms, I suppose the College of Arms is the place to ask. has anyone ever dealt with these people? It seems they charge a fee. Speaking of which, does this token seem valuable? Not that I would sell it as it appeals to my romantic side, but before I start shelling out on research, I'd like to know if it does have any monetary value.

thanks again all.

[Debbie]

With these things I have found it may be a case of whatever someone is prepared to pay. I'm sure others here will be able to give you a rough idea what it would be worth if it wasn't engraved - I would’ve thought at least £70 looking at Spink. One thing is certain, if you can find out a little more history on it it will no doubt increase its desirability and price immensely.

[argentumandcoins]

Many thanks for the help and please keep it coming!

Is it possible the engraving on the reverse was hand done, or was it stamped? And as far as identifying the coat of arms, I suppose the College of Arms is the place to ask. has anyone ever dealt with these people? It seems they charge a fee. Speaking of which, does this token seem valuable? Not that I would sell it as it appeals to my romantic side, but before I start shelling out on research, I'd like to know if it does have any monetary value.

thanks again all.

The engraving was certainly done by hand.

I used to deal in antique silver (and still have some for sale) and have seen tons of similar crests. They are usually on tableware so that the guests could admire the wealth of the host.

Your halfcrown has a small appeal to numismatists and a small appeal to silver collectors (sorry Debbie but you are in a small niche in our market ).

It would probably add nothing to the value to pin down the family crest but it will add an immense amount of interest to the piece for you if you intend to keep it.

Is it a piece that has come through your family?

As for value, I think £50/£80 as an interesting and attractive oddity wouldn't be out of the way.

Edited March 2, 2012 by argentumandcoins

[Peter]

Yes I was going to say that it looks like a “love token†to me. Where the reverse has been purposely erased, edge decorated and a new engraving done. No idea what the significance of the shield / dragon is though I’m afraid but I bet it had some unique and special meaning.

Debbie

Noting your interest.Try goggling Hobo tokens.

There are some real works of art.

[Debbie]

Fascinating!

[wcsheldrake]

Thanks again for the help, and no it isn't a family piece (well I guess it is sort of) my father found it during WWII amongst a bunch of bombed out rubble. He didn't grow up in the kind of place where people had family crests, or engraved much of anything except maybe the pewter drinking mug at the local pub. It was found with a couple of 19th c German states Thalers, so I've always speculated that it may have been swag picked up by a WWI soldier. Or maybe my imagination is too fervid.

Is the heraldry on the token English or could it be continental?

[argentumandcoins]

Thanks again for the help, and no it isn't a family piece (well I guess it is sort of) my father found it during WWII amongst a bunch of bombed out rubble. He didn't grow up in the kind of place where people had family crests, or engraved much of anything except maybe the pewter drinking mug at the local pub. It was found with a couple of 19th c German states Thalers, so I've always speculated that it may have been swag picked up by a WWI soldier. Or maybe my imagination is too fervid.

Is the heraldry on the token English or could it be continental?

It looks British to me.

Try a google search on "heraldry dragons" and see what comes up.