1805 Two Pence Pattern

[Mat]

Hi, just wondering if this 1805 pattern went for about the right price:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110688375631&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I remember an 1805 gold proof two pence sold for £32000 about 10 years ago.

[Accumulator]

I was an underbidder... I'd spent far too much recently! Seemed like good value to me though.

[Mat]

I was an underbidder... I'd spent far too much recently! Seemed like good value to me though.

I stopped at about £300 as I was not too sure on it, it was playing on my mind though so thought I would throw it on the forum to try and make my self feel better about it!

[Rob]

It doesn't look to be in the best condition. There are a couple of rim marks, a couple of spots and a fingerprint on the reverse. The angled image also results in bright spots at the top of both sides.

Given the above, I would automatically assume it was hiding something. If you had a better presentation and what I perceive was wrong, then it would be worth bidding higher, but £400 is adequate for the item as seen.

[Rob]

Hi, just wondering if this 1805 pattern went for about the right price:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110688375631&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I remember an 1805 gold proof two pence sold for £32000 about 10 years ago.

The price of an almost certainly unique gold coin that had been off the market for 104 years until it resurfaced in 2008 is completely unrelated to the expected price of a run-of-the-mill pattern.

The actual price of the gold piece was £32500 hammer (£38226.50 with premium), plus the commission charged by the person acting for him/her in the saleroom.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Rob

[azda]

I've spoke to this guy a few times over ebay, he's a genuine collector, or was until he was forced to sell his collection a few years back because of a divorce. He's had a few nice coins listed recently, but i don't think he's much left now

[Rob]

It is probably no coincidence that it was an unsold lot with an estimate of £500-600 when his collection went through the saleroom. Bearing that in mind the price is probably right.

[azda]

It is probably no coincidence that it was an unsold lot with an estimate of £500-600 when his collection went through the saleroom. Bearing that in mind the price is probably right.

He's sold some serious coins in the last month or so on ebay, so there are still serious collectors looking on the bay to

[Rob]

It is probably no coincidence that it was an unsold lot with an estimate of £500-600 when his collection went through the saleroom. Bearing that in mind the price is probably right.

He's sold some serious coins in the last month or so on ebay, so there are still serious collectors looking on the bay to

They are likely to be the remaining unsolds from his sale. It appears that 39 out of the 676 lots were unsold, if my sums are correct.

[Accumulator]

He's sold a lot more than 39 items recently Rob. Maybe he discovered a stash he'd completely 'forgotten about' at the time of his divorce?

[Rob]

He's sold a lot more than 39 items recently Rob. Maybe he discovered a stash he'd completely 'forgotten about' at the time of his divorce?

I haven't checked the contents of the lots, but there is nothing to say that he hasn't augmented the selection in the ensuing couple of years.

[Mat]

Thank you for the extra info on the gold proof Rob, hopefully it will appear again befor 2112!

[Rob]

Thank you for the extra info on the gold proof Rob, hopefully it will appear again befor 2112!

The bidding increments on this lot at Plymouth were a lesson for those trying to throw off the opposition. It got to £30K with the winner in £1K steps, then it went £30,500, then £31K, then £31,500, then the killer blow by the winner calling out £32,500 rather than going £32K. It may have been to ensure that the winner used up every bit of leeway he had or not, I don't know, but it gave the desired result as the underbidder passed.

[argentumandcoins]

Thank you for the extra info on the gold proof Rob, hopefully it will appear again befor 2112!

The bidding increments on this lot at Plymouth were a lesson for those trying to throw off the opposition. It got to £30K with the winner in £1K steps, then it went £30,500, then £31K, then £31,500, then the killer blow by the winner calling out £32,500 rather than going £32K. It may have been to ensure that the winner used up every bit of leeway he had or not, I don't know, but it gave the desired result as the underbidder passed.

I have called out 4 times the bid increment more than once in the past. It saves p*****g about when you know you are going to be the buyer anyway. It also totally demoralises the competition. There's nowt like grinding them in the dirt

[azda]

I was an underbidder... I'd spent far too much recently! Seemed like good value to me though.

i know who bought

[Accumulator]

I was an underbidder... I'd spent far too much recently! Seemed like good value to me though.

i know who bought

You, Dave?

[azda]

No, a guy who bought a coin from me at the begining of this year, kept in touch with him since, swapping pics of what we bought etc, He just sent me the pics of it today and here they are.

There is a thumb print under the extended arm of Britannia

Edited May 28, 2011 by azda

[Accumulator]

No, a guy who bought a coin from me at the begining of this year, kept in touch with him since, swapping pics of what we bought etc, He just sent me the pics of it today and here they are.

There is a thumb print under the extended arm of Britannia

It may be like mine, the thumb print was on the scanner glass! Nice coin.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Accumulator

[Peckris]

No, a guy who bought a coin from me at the begining of this year, kept in touch with him since, swapping pics of what we bought etc, He just sent me the pics of it today and here they are.

There is a thumb print under the extended arm of Britannia

It may be like mine, the thumb print was on the scanner glass! Nice coin.

Gorgeous. I'd live with a slight thumbprint.

[Rob]

The reverse shows up a recurring feature of Taylor's restrikes. Frequently you will see the design ghosted, but rotated by a few degrees. This appears to be due to the state of the collars as purchased by Taylor at the Soho Mint sale, or of others that were used. It is known that the RENDER edge was seriously delapidated as an early restrike has metal protruding from the gaps in the joints to produce a quite spectacular piece. You also find that his plain collar was liable to open up, resulting in a series of vertical lines across the edge and multiply struck designs which are rotated by varying amounts. The reverse here shows two tridents and a selection of letters are also seen in duplicate.

[Peter]

Nice work Rob...always interesting.

Have you an aquaintence called Watson and are you an occasional user of cocaine?

[Rob]

This P1379 from UBS sale 74 is another example of the collar slipping. The edge had half a dozen straight lines across the edge covering a distance approximately equal to the limits of the double striking seen below where the legend is clearly multiply struck and in fact there are at least two of everything. The coin also demonstrates Taylor's hit and miss efforts at bronzing which often resulted in a mottled effect.