1876 penny no H

[headsortails]

please have a look at this penny which i beleave to be a 1876H with no H,toughts please.

[Gary]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

[Gary D]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

I would suggest that the H wore away with the outer circle, there does seem to be a gap there.

[headsortails]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

[Peckris]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

Can you repost it full on rather than at an angle? Thanks. By the way, the bottom of the three above, looks like a wider date than normal, so that might be worth a picture too.

[headsortails]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

Can you repost it full on rather than at an angle? Thanks. By the way, the bottom of the three above, looks like a wider date than normal, so that might be worth a picture too.

[Peckris]

Hmmmm! That does seem to be without. Very suspicious of these pennies though. It is generally believed that the 1876 without the H does not exist as none have turned up in good enough condition to prove otherwise. Could you post a pic of the whole coin?

Can you repost it full on rather than at an angle? Thanks. By the way, the bottom of the three above, looks like a wider date than normal, so that might be worth a picture too.

Interesting. Two possibilities from what I see there :

1. The H was normal but has worn right away (not an unusual occurrence)

2. The die got clogged up and only partly or faintly struck up the H

One thing is certain - it's not an "1876 no H" London Mint variety. The space is there for it.

[scott]

it is listed, i think it is a clogged die though i had this one a while

[1949threepence]

The trouble with worn coins is that very ikely, the H will simply have worn away. Could be a clogged die, although I'm inclined towards the worn away H.

I don't personally believe there's any 1876(no H)pennies around.

[Peckris]

The trouble with worn coins is that very ikely, the H will simply have worn away. Could be a clogged die, although I'm inclined towards the worn away H.

I don't personally believe there's any 1876(no H)pennies around.

Supposedly one in Fair sold for over £200 in Bamford .. but that could have been a clogged die, assuming the obverse and reverse were true to the Heaton type.

[scott]

the wear pattens make no sence for the H to wear away. its definatly clogged die

[Peckris]

the wear pattens make no sence for the H to wear away. its definatly clogged die

I'm not so sure scott - have another look at the three pepnnies above, they seem to be showing three distinct stages of wear:

• The middle one shows a strong exergue with all elements from the uppepr line down to the rim still clearly visible

• The bottom one shows strength everywhere EXCEPT the lower half of the date digits, and the H

• The top one only shows strength in the upper exergual line and the topmost part of the date digits

It seems that wear begins on the lower parts of the date and the H, then spreads to the rim+teeth thus exposing the remainder of the exergue to accelerated wear without the protection of the rim. The H on those buns is nearly always shallower than the date digits anyway, and will disappear completely before the date (which - in ghost form - is often the very last portion to disappear completely, along with the outline of Vicky's bust).

You so often now see "no H" examples of many dates appearing (heralded or unheralded) on eBay. Too many perhaps to ascribe to clogged dies? Though I wouldn't dismiss the idea completely.

[scott]

the picture above my one i think i can see the top of the H

on mine the line around the edge is intact, but there is something more with 1876H, i have loads of H coins in this grade, some have the rim+teath wear reaching the H but the H is still there, the date wears down to the H level on the others that havn't had this wear, this goes for 1874H 1975H and 1876H the one i posted above is the only missing H

[Gary D]

the picture above my one i think i can see the top of the H

on mine the line around the edge is intact, but there is something more with 1876H, i have loads of H coins in this grade, some have the rim+teath wear reaching the H but the H is still there, the date wears down to the H level on the others that havn't had this wear, this goes for 1874H 1975H and 1876H the one i posted above is the only missing H

The only way to tell if there was an H there would be to burnish the coin and apply some acid. This would bring out the stress lines caused by the minting process and would show if there had ever been an H there or not.

[just.me]

Here is my example of a clogged die ' no H ' 1876 Penny, the linear circle is still quite strong.

[Peckris]

Here is my example of a clogged die ' no H ' 1876 Penny, the linear circle is still quite strong.

Or, it could be that the H was machined away when the coin was much less worn, and evidence of the machining has also now been worn away. Just a thought.

[scott]

why would someone machine off an H when it was less worn.. then spend it

[Peckris]

why would someone machine off an H when it was less worn.. then spend it

Because 99 out of every 100 people (you may find this hard to believe LOL) regard coins as mere money, or at best interesting metal discs to be defaced in a variety of interesting ways. People have split two extremely common pennies and stuck two of the different halves together for no better reason than "Hey, I've got a new lathe".

When I looked through bags of pennies in the late 60s, you wouldn't believe the number of defaced items I found, from deeply machined initials and / or numbers, to serrating, heart- or other-shaped holes, or simply machining off every other letter in the legend.

[headsortails]

why would someone machine off an H when it was less worn.. then spend it

Because 99 out of every 100 people (you may find this hard to believe LOL) regard coins as mere money, or at best interesting metal discs to be defaced in a variety of interesting ways. People have split two extremely common pennies and stuck two of the different halves together for no better reason than "Hey, I've got a new lathe".

When I looked through bags of pennies in the late 60s, you wouldn't believe the number of defaced items I found, from deeply machined initials and / or numbers, to serrating, heart- or other-shaped holes, or simply machining off every other letter in the legend.

thank's for all the input,beleave it or not ive found another coin same date no H since I posted this Q.these coins were minted in in birmingham im sure,most had the H some diden't the coins are there and are not rare BUT are they on record,

[Peckris]

why would someone machine off an H when it was less worn.. then spend it

Because 99 out of every 100 people (you may find this hard to believe LOL) regard coins as mere money, or at best interesting metal discs to be defaced in a variety of interesting ways. People have split two extremely common pennies and stuck two of the different halves together for no better reason than "Hey, I've got a new lathe".

When I looked through bags of pennies in the late 60s, you wouldn't believe the number of defaced items I found, from deeply machined initials and / or numbers, to serrating, heart- or other-shaped holes, or simply machining off every other letter in the legend.

thank's for all the input,beleave it or not ive found another coin same date no H since I posted this Q.these coins were minted in in birmingham im sure,most had the H some diden't the coins are there and are not rare BUT are they on record,

If someone produces an example that's at least a good Fine, then I'll believe the 'clogged die' theory. Until then I'm going with the 'wear or damage' scenario.

[daz]

this is a better quality with a missing H

[1949threepence]

this is a better quality with a missing H

There's a bit of a mark underneath. I'm going with the theory that someone's cut out the H quite skilfully, but not perfectly.

[argentumandcoins]

On 400x mag you can see the H ghosting, and that's from a digital picture. In hand it would be blatantly obvious what it was.

[Peckris]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

[Accumulator]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.