A VERY strange looking medal

[azda]

Thought i'd post this one, it has to be the ugliest medal i've ever seen, and what a REV eh Obviously a masons medal and quite racist to

Edited October 5, 2010 by azda

[davidrj]

Thought i'd post this one, it has to be the ugliest medal i've ever seen, and what a REV eh Obviously a masons medal and quite racist to

Hideous! Nazi propaganda

[azda]

Thought i'd post this one, it has to be the ugliest medal i've ever seen, and what a REV eh Obviously a masons medal and quite racist to

Hideous! Nazi propaganda

It isn't Nazi Prop David, its dated 1920, its a Freemasons medal, check the eye on the REV

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Gosh, there's some complex iconography there.

[RLC35]

I know the "All Seeing Eye" is a Mason's symbol, but somehow I don't think that is an official Mason's token. BTW...I am not a Mason.

[StGeorge]

I don't understand why the French is on it. What is the medal for?

[davidrj]

Thought i'd post this one, it has to be the ugliest medal i've ever seen, and what a REV eh Obviously a masons medal and quite racist to

Hideous! Nazi propaganda

It isn't Nazi Prop David, its dated 1920, its a Freemasons medal, check the eye on the REV

I stand corrected, but demonstrative of attitudes in Germany post WWI

I thought I recognised the style - it's by Karl Goertz see Goertz medals K262 The Watch on the Rhine

This medal was Goetz' protest for the arrival of black colonial French troops to occupy the Rhine territory.

Most certainly a ploy by the French to humiliate the Germans, Goetz was obviously livid with the action.

Here we see his vitriolic response over several 'reported' rapes and sexual excesses by these occupying troops. History now shows that these fears were unfounded and reports of rape were more exception than rule.

This does not remove the fact that this 'infamous' iconography still overshadows Goetz' entire oeuvre.

David

[davidrj]

I thought I recognised the style - it's by Karl Goertz see Goertz medals K262 The Watch on the Rhine

David

This was the chap who also designed the infamous Lusitania medal

Brilliant artist, but lacking in humanity in my view

David

[1949threepence]

"Die Schwarze Shande" meaning "the black disgrace".

Without any background knowledge the meaning is obscure, but given that after the first world war, France did treat Germans in the now French occupied areas of former Germany, such as Alsace Lorraine, quite badly, it becomes slightly clearer.

One can only speculate that black troops were used in this process, and therefore the racist angle becomes more obvious. Presumably the maiden tied to the phallic symbol, is somehow meant to represent the alleged sexual abuse of German women by such troops ? I don't know.

Very, very nasty, nevertheless.

Edited October 6, 2010 by 1949threepence

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Somehow, I don't think he'd get away with most of his work today.

It's really strange how we've allowed ourselves to be bullied into political correctness over the last 20 years.

[argentumandcoins]

Even stranger how most of the bullying is done by the EU, which is headed by....... Germany and France!

[azda]

Even stranger how most of the bullying is done by the EU, which is headed by....... Germany and France!

I thought it was Brussels that did most of the bullying John, i remember a few years ago when France wanted the UK to give up some huge amount of cash fro farmers i think it was, only Angela Merkel stood by the UK and told France that if the UK were to do so then France should do the same. Again we're headed into politics, but yes a very crude and nasty piece of work by Goetz, i don't think his most popular, i assume he was very pissed off at the occupation by the French on German soil.

I read last week that Germany has only just last week paid the last installment of nearly 57 Million for the rebuilding work for France and the likes during the 1st WW, it saidit would have been paid eariler had Hitler not stopped the payments during his time. I think it equated in todays terms as something like 225 billion that they have repaid.

[Fubar]

Attached is the British propaganda version of the original Goetz medal.

I have it in my collection of shipping related ephemera as opposed to coins.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Presumably the maiden tied to the phallic symbol, is somehow meant to represent the alleged sexual abuse of German women by such troops ?

That's your and Derek's French piece...

Attached is the British propaganda version of the original Goetz medal.

Sinking the Lusitania turned out to be a pretty stupid thing to have done with hindsight - it upset a lot of people around the world and indirectly led to the USA's entrance into WWI. But then you knew that.

[Red Riley]

Somehow, I don't think he'd get away with most of his work today.

It's really strange how we've allowed ourselves to be bullied into political correctness over the last 20 years.

You're right but this medal overstepped the mark and foreshadowed the Nazi regime and all its horrors. Despising all it stood for goes beyond political correctness; it represented at best unpleasant xenophobia and at worst an attempt to stir up racial hatred.

[scott]

it does have the french look to it. but that thing is very bizzare, interesting history about it.

[azda]

If anyone is interested i can post a few more pictures of some medals from the 3rd Reich. I don't want to offend anyone, so am asking before i do so, these are only for study and nothing more.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Personally, I like the Belgian medals, you can definitely see the influence of all those choclatier's they have, some of the designs are superb.

If you've got some interesting medals, by all means show them - medals come under the heading of numismatics, this is a numismatic forum and posting one from the 3rd Reich does not mean you are advocating the holocaust.

That's my opinion.

[scott]

shame belgian coins are boring

french medals are the best imo.

but yea show em, i have nazi oins, what differance does it make really.

[azda]

Ok, a piece of trivia for you all. Winston Churchill was an MP (obviously) before he became PM. Which city was he an MP for, and here's a wee clue, my hometown

Ok on the subject of medals, here's one i picked up at a local fleamarket, this is'nt the actual one i have, mine is not in such good condition, but its the same one, and on the same note, i have the same birthday as this idiot. Notice, he was 50 when WW2 started, 5 months after his birthday.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Ok, a piece of trivia for you all. Winston Churchill was an MP (obviously) before he became PM. Which city was he an MP for, and here's a wee clue, my hometown

Ok on the subject of medals, here's one i picked up at a local fleamarket, this is'nt the actual one i have, mine is not in such good condition, but its the same one, and on the same note, i have the same birthday as this idiot. Notice, he was 50 when WW2 started, 5 months after his birthday.

Really, Churchill MP for Dundee ??

These non govermental pieces are a hobby in themselves, there are millions of them around the world, all celebrating something.

[azda]

Aye, Winnie was the MP for Dundee. And just as a side note, a well known Hollywood actor, Brian Cox, was born a bred in Dundee, he was in Bourne Identity and the sequal and also in Braveheart and played Argyle Wallace in the film. His sister still stays where i grew up, in Lochee Dundee.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004051/ <<< Brian Cox

Am full of useless information today

Edited October 6, 2010 by azda

[scott]

that medal is quite stylish, i'm surprised that it doesnt have that font they used everywhere.

[Peckris]

Somehow, I don't think he'd get away with most of his work today.

It's really strange how we've allowed ourselves to be bullied into political correctness over the last 20 years.

On that subject, I'm currently looking through a Giles annual, showing his cartoons from the late 40s to the mid 90s. In the 60s he did a cartoon inspired by the fact that Boy Scouts had been issued with new uniforms. The cartoon shows a Brownie Leader leading her pack of Brownies and saying, "We'll give them 'new uniform', won't we girls?" (paraphrase). The Brownies are all dressed in Bunny Girl costumes. THAT wouldn't get passed today!

I read last week that Germany has only just last week paid the last installment of nearly 57 Million for the rebuilding work for France and the likes during the 1st WW, it saidit would have been paid eariler had Hitler not stopped the payments during his time. I think it equated in todays terms as something like 225 billion that they have repaid.

And let's never forget, if it wasn't for the treatment of Germany by the Allies after Versailles, the Second World War probably wouldn't have happened.

[1949threepence]

Somehow, I don't think he'd get away with most of his work today.

It's really strange how we've allowed ourselves to be bullied into political correctness over the last 20 years.

On that subject, I'm currently looking through a Giles annual, showing his cartoons from the late 40s to the mid 90s. In the 60s he did a cartoon inspired by the fact that Boy Scouts had been issued with new uniforms. The cartoon shows a Brownie Leader leading her pack of Brownies and saying, "We'll give them 'new uniform', won't we girls?" (paraphrase). The Brownies are all dressed in Bunny Girl costumes. THAT wouldn't get passed today!

Whilst I can understand the annoyance that cartoon might cause, banning it would really be censorship. It's on trivia like this, that the concept of political correctness lends itself to ridicule.

I read last week that Germany has only just last week paid the last installment of nearly 57 Million for the rebuilding work for France and the likes during the 1st WW, it saidit would have been paid eariler had Hitler not stopped the payments during his time. I think it equated in todays terms as something like 225 billion that they have repaid.

And let's never forget, if it wasn't for the treatment of Germany by the Allies after Versailles, the Second World War probably wouldn't have happened.

Yes. If the economic conditions had been more favourable in Germany post World War 1, Hitler would have been seen for the psycho nutter he was, and the fascist movement would never have emerged in any meaningful way.