Is there anything at all we can do

[£400 for a Penny ?]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

[azda]

Apparently its already happening 400, copies can be bought from China, when they are bought the buyer can ask for COPY not to be stamped on them, then they try and pass them on back on ebay as original

[AardHawk]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

Yes there is. Stop discussing the high value that you are prepared to pay for coins. Replica coin production is quite legal in China, so its not going to stop if its profitable to produce them.

I suppose that you could get all your coins graded, serial numbered etched on edge and registered. Then when you sell, people could look the actual coin up in the registry and determine if its genuine or not. The other alternative is not stop ramping up the market by paying inflated prices. This is after all a hobby for most of us and not a speculative investment game.

[azda]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

Yes there is. Stop discussing the high value that you are prepared to pay for coins. Replica coin production is quite legal in China, so its not going to stop if its profitable to produce them.

I suppose that you could get all your coins graded, serial numbered etched on edge and registered. Then when you sell, people could look the actual coin up in the registry and determine if its genuine or not. The other alternative is not stop ramping up the market by paying inflated prices. This is after all a hobby for most of us and not a speculative investment game.

I don't see where anyone has discussed high value or what they are prepared to pay, but if you like ARD, you can strat by going around the billion or so people who collect around the world and tell them also, when you've finished sometime in the next Millenia, come back and tell us how you got on, by then of course, prices would have increased etc etc, so thats not going to happen. Prices are determined by the market and dealers who ask for what they want basically.

We try and get a coin at a reasonable price, but, if there is that LAST coin that would slip nicely into your specific type collection, what exactly would you pay, 2, 3 times the price if you've been waiting many a year? UH HUH

[davidrj]

If folk here think British prices are going over the top, look at the US $2M FOR 3 LINCOLN CENTS

David

[£400 for a Penny ?]

If folk here think British prices are going over the top, look at the US $2M FOR 3 LINCOLN CENTS

David

Blimey.

Well, if you're watching Mr Chinaman, surely you'd be better off faking those eh ?

[Red Riley]

If folk here think British prices are going over the top, look at the US $2M FOR 3 LINCOLN CENTS

David

Is it just me that half hopes the public regain their senses and they end up being stuck with it?

[£400 for a Penny ?]

If folk here think British prices are going over the top, look at the US $2M FOR 3 LINCOLN CENTS

David

Is it just me that half hopes the public regain their senses and they end up being stuck with it?

If I read it correctly, I think they brokered a deal, bought it off some "reluctant" seller and sold it on to another collector. The proceeds of the sale are going to charity evidently and the coin outfit were too exhausted to attend the Long Beach show - probably as a result of getting slaughtered for a week celebrating their $200K brokerage.....

[AardHawk]

I don't see where anyone has discussed high value or what they are prepared to pay, but if you like ARD, you can strat by going around the billion or so people who collect around the world and tell them also, when you've finished sometime in the next Millenia, come back and tell us how you got on, by then of course, prices would have increased etc etc, so thats not going to happen. Prices are determined by the market and dealers who ask for what they want basically.

We try and get a coin at a reasonable price, but, if there is that LAST coin that would slip nicely into your specific type collection, what exactly would you pay, 2, 3 times the price if you've been waiting many a year? UH HUH

Just the sort of reply I'de expect from a supermarket.

[azda]

Not quite with you there Ard, supermarket/coins, Hey now There's a good idea, giving out coins at a supermarket, why hasn't asda or tescos thought of that yet

[Peckris]

Not quite with you there Ard, supermarket/coins, Hey now There's a good idea, giving out coins at a supermarket, why hasn't asda or tescos thought of that yet

I think he meant Asda az - a poor joke at any level

Oh wait - you mentioned asda in your reply, you just didn't rise to the bait

Edited September 23, 2010 by Peckris

[Gary D]

Not quite with you there Ard, supermarket/coins, Hey now There's a good idea, giving out coins at a supermarket, why hasn't asda or tescos thought of that yet

Boots the chemist used to have a coin collecting section where they sold a few coins

Gary

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Not quite with you there Ard, supermarket/coins, Hey now There's a good idea, giving out coins at a supermarket, why hasn't asda or tescos thought of that yet

Boots the chemist used to have a coin collecting section where they sold a few coins

Gary

Really ?

[TomGoodheart]

Yes there is. Stop discussing the high value that you are prepared to pay for coins. Replica coin production is quite legal in China, so its not going to stop if its profitable to produce them.

I suppose that you could get all your coins graded, serial numbered etched on edge and registered. Then when you sell, people could look the actual coin up in the registry and determine if its genuine or not. The other alternative is not stop ramping up the market by paying inflated prices. This is after all a hobby for most of us and not a speculative investment game.

I think the problem is Aard, it isn't so much us or people like the collectors here but the investors you mention that are into 'high value'. Plus of course auction houses and subsequently newspapers like to go on about how much a coin has made. Which then makes people think all coins have to be worth something, when the truth is most are just so much scrap metal. And that all coin collectors are made of money and will give it away at the drop of a hat.

As for inflated prices, well that's kind of relative. When there's only a handful of any item, whether it's a coin or a beanie toy, and there are plenty of people who want one ... You or I might think the prices are insane, but to those collectors who end up paying less than they had hoped, it's cheap.

Bottom line is that if there's a way to make a fast buck, someone will find it. Even if they have to do it in a factory in China.

Edited September 24, 2010 by TomGoodheart

[azda]

If you look at Hussalos post there you will see a 90k profit in 3 months on 1 coin bought ans subsequently sold. Its not Asda, Tescos or boots that are ramping up the prices, its individuals with mountains of cash to throw away, and we mere mortals at the end of the day have to pay for it, because as Tom said, if there's something out there that you really want or must have, you'll pay what it takes (within our megre budgets at least) to buy said coin or beanie

[Peckris]

Is it only me that got the Azda / Asda reference, or are you all wisely ignoring it? (Reference to supermarkets : it was a mild insult playing on Azda's name ...)

[1949threepence]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

I really don't think there's a lot we can do, except be very suspicious of old coins that appear too perfect. If they look too good to be true, they very likely are.

[azda]

A site i use a lot here in Germany refuses now to ship to China, thats a start i suppose. Nothing should leave China (coin wise) unless its stamped COPY

[TomGoodheart]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

I really don't think there's a lot we can do, except be very suspicious of old coins that appear too perfect. If they look too good to be true, they very likely are.

While that's true, I have noticed that there are increasing numbers of (modern) cast copies of very ordinary late hammered coins appearing on eBay. I might be suspicious of a rare variety or a much better than normally found example, particularly being listed by someone with a record of only selling jeans, but an ordinary coin? And if I'm just starting out and want a space filler?

Yes, there is a Henry VIII testoon currently on sale for a relatively low price that looks better than any I've seen before; but without the coin in my hand it's difficult to tell. The main reason to be suspicious in that case is that the seller apparently can't be bothered to visit a dealer to confirm his coin's value but is happy to let it go for quite a bit less on eBay.

But the 'average' duff 'coin' goes for around £30. A decent profit for someone that has perhaps spent a few quid making it. And if you're sensible enough to refund all money and act polite if a buyer questions their purchase, you avoid most negative feedback allowing you to continue scamming many others.

No, it's a bad business that harms the hobby far more than the individuals who are unlucky enough to buy one of these things. Eventually any coin of any value to a collector without a photographic provenance going back at least 30 years could become unsellable. What happens then to Joe-average collectors like us? Either we're priced out of the hobby or left with a collection nobody else will want.

Edited September 25, 2010 by TomGoodheart

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Is it only me that got the Azda / Asda reference, or are you all wisely ignoring it? (Reference to supermarkets : it was a mild insult playing on Azda's name ...)

Yes Peck, we did - we're just letting it die a natural death out of respect to both Az and Aard.

While that's true, I have noticed that there are increasing numbers of (modern) cast copies of very ordinary late hammered coins appearing on eBay. I might be suspicious of a rare variety or a much better than normally found example, particularly being listed by someone with a record of only selling jeans, but an ordinary coin? And if I'm just starting out and want a space filler?

The most effective fraud in history was in the USA in the sixties I think, someone hacked into a banks computer system and syphoned a cent off every account, every month and no-one noticed for ages.

Issuing point being that it's not necessarily the high tariff coins that will get faked.

[azda]

Thats not being faked 400, thats fraud as far as i can see

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Thats not being faked 400, thats fraud as far as i can see

My point being, the clever forger doesn't forge the high value items, where everyone is naturally suspicious anyway, they forge the things everyone assumes nobody would bother to forge.

[1949threepence]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REPLICA-1922-Australia-ONE-PENNY-COIN-COPY-UNC-/270607425131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f01759e6b

Because it surely won't be long before they aren't stamped copy

I really don't think there's a lot we can do, except be very suspicious of old coins that appear too perfect. If they look too good to be true, they very likely are.

While that's true, I have noticed that there are increasing numbers of (modern) cast copies of very ordinary late hammered coins appearing on eBay. I might be suspicious of a rare variety or a much better than normally found example, particularly being listed by someone with a record of only selling jeans, but an ordinary coin? And if I'm just starting out and want a space filler?

Yes, there is a Henry VIII testoon currently on sale for a relatively low price that looks better than any I've seen before; but without the coin in my hand it's difficult to tell. The main reason to be suspicious in that case is that the seller apparently can't be bothered to visit a dealer to confirm his coin's value but is happy to let it go for quite a bit less on eBay.

But the 'average' duff 'coin' goes for around £30. A decent profit for someone that has perhaps spent a few quid making it. And if you're sensible enough to refund all money and act polite if a buyer questions their purchase, you avoid most negative feedback allowing you to continue scamming many others.

That's probably very true. Such action will deflect too much negative attention & allow the scammer to continue largely unhindered.

No, it's a bad business that harms the hobby far more than the individuals who are unlucky enough to buy one of these things. Eventually any coin of any value to a collector without a photographic provenance going back at least 30 years could become unsellable. What happens then to Joe-average collectors like us? Either we're priced out of the hobby or left with a collection nobody else will want.

That's an extreme "worst case" scenario you have painted there, Tom. Whilst I can see where you are coming from, I'm not sure I agree. The number of genuine coins still exceeds the fakes by many orders of magnitude, and it's doubtful whether the forgers will make any significant inroads into the realms of the extremely knowledgeable collector community, without becoming seriously unstuck.

Just beware of ultra perfect coins. I don't think even the most expert forger will be able to effectively emulate 100+ years of natural "uncirculated" ageing.

My two pennuth

[TomGoodheart]

That's an extreme "worst case" scenario you have painted there, Tom. Whilst I can see where you are coming from, I'm not sure I agree. The number of genuine coins still exceeds the fakes by many orders of magnitude, and it's doubtful whether the forgers will make any significant inroads into the realms of the extremely knowledgeable collector community, without becoming seriously unstuck.

Just beware of ultra perfect coins. I don't think even the most expert forger will be able to effectively emulate 100+ years of natural "uncirculated" ageing.

My two pennuth

Yes, I think that was my frustration talking! But I do feel that if some youngster (and we've had a few as members here) forks out a decent wodge of pocket money on what they think is a representative example of a coin and then a few months later find out at a coin fair or from a dealer that they have been swindled that is quite likely to discourage them. And for the hobbby to continue we need new collectors to take an interest.

And we've seen with slabbing, a proportion of collectors are delegating the identification and authentication of their coins to a third party. It only needs a few replicas to be mis-authenticated and confidence could start to go.

As for knowledgable collector, well there's a coin on eBay at present currently listed at £230. If you're not a knowledgable collector that seems to me to be a lot of dosh to be throwing at a coin! And if you are, why are you bidding on something that shouts "replica!"?

[TomGoodheart]

Someone actually did do something! Worthless pewter junk

I had to laugh, though I can't imagine the eBay people will be too pleased!

Edited September 28, 2010 by TomGoodheart