variatys, listings, and that line between what is and isn't

[Red Riley]

So.. Is the exergue part of the die ?

I'm saying it isn't and that any activity within the exergue is not part of the die and therefore isn't of any significance.

In my world thick and thin lighthouses are of interest, Wyons initials are of interest, numbers of berries and hair vvariations count, but the exergue has been created deliberately as an area in which ongoing working maintenance (such as changing the date) can take place, therefore it should be of no surprise that there are differences.

My position is, that if it's below the exergual line, it's not a difference in the design, it's an unintentional (and inevitable) signature of the mintworker who engraved the plate.

And therefore, to me, it's not a variety, it's a feature.

These are just my thoughts, better expressed than withheld.

Rgds as always.

A good argument with which I broadly agree 400. However, what about Hs and KNs?!

Actually I think what happens is that the exergue is left blank on the master die but punched in on the working die. This would mean that every working die would exhibit different date spacings if only microscopically. Has anybody bothered to check the positioning of the H? No, let's not go there...

Edited June 13, 2010 by Red Riley

[DaveG38]

So.. Is the exergue part of the die ?

I'm saying it isn't and that any activity within the exergue is not part of the die and therefore isn't of any significance.

In my world thick and thin lighthouses are of interest, Wyons initials are of interest, numbers of berries and hair vvariations count, but the exergue has been created deliberately as an area in which ongoing working maintenance (such as changing the date) can take place, therefore it should be of no surprise that there are differences.

My position is, that if it's below the exergual line, it's not a difference in the design, it's an unintentional (and inevitable) signature of the mintworker who engraved the plate.

And therefore, to me, it's not a variety, it's a feature.

These are just my thoughts, better expressed than withheld.

Rgds as always.

A good argument with which I broadly agree 400. However, what about Hs and KNs?!

Actually I think what happens is that the exergue is left blank on the master die but punched in on the working die. This would mean that every working die would exhibit different date spacings if only microscopically. Has anybody bothered to check the positioning of the H? No, let's not go there...

Not sure about the positioning of the 'H' but the 1918 has different spacings for the 'K' and the 'N.'

[scott]

and the victorian farthings have differant H location, even H over H i think on one

if you didnt cout the things in the exergue would rule out every overdate :/

speaking of date spacing

[Red Riley]

Not sure about the positioning of the 'H' but the 1918 has different spacings for the 'K' and the 'N.'

AAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH!

[azda]

Peckris, i tend to agree with you about the staged moon landing etc, but what's intriguing is that date of 1933 AGAIN!!!! and Nessie plus the 1933 Penny. I think we have just begun our own X-Files for the date 1933.

Just as a side note, i think RED is about to blow. Tin hats gents

Edited June 13, 2010 by azda

[£400 for a Penny ?]

A good argument with which I broadly agree 400. However, what about Hs and KNs?!

Well, you're right of course about the H and KN because the reasons for them being there are of numismatic significance, so I have to concede the point.

However, I don't accept that overdates and different numerals are of numismatic significance, they are evidence of mintworkers working the dies, but not part of a change in the design and therefore to me, interesting perhaps, but not important.

And why they command the incredible premium that some of them do completely escapes me, honestly, it goes so far over my head that my hair doesn't even move.

But, as has been said many times, it's a free world.

I am starting to agree with Scott on this - that perhaps it is a clash of two different collecting cultures(countries).

Rgds,

[Peckris]

Peckris, i tend to agree with you about the staged moon landing etc, but what's intriguing is that date of 1933 AGAIN!!!! and Nessie plus the 1933 Penny. I think we have just begun our own X-Files for the date 1933.

Just as a side note, i think RED is about to blow. Tin hats gents

You did NOT see me smoking behind a pillar in an underground car park

[scott]

so whats 1862 Halfpenny date penny? the dates are the same size arn't they?

[argentumandcoins]

No, the date numerals are the same size as those used on the halfpenny.

Pics attached with the standard date numerals for comparison.

The difference is much more obvious in the hand.

[azda]

which is which?

[argentumandcoins]

The 1/2d die numerals Penny is on the bottom.