Cam, Deep Cam and VIP

[Gary D]

The US TPGs have this habit of grading proofs as PL, PL with cameo, PL with deep cameo and even VIP. Ok VIP is plain enough but what is this CAM and DEEP CAM and where does deep cam meet VIP? Are they just nitpicking.

Gary

[£400 for a Penny ?]

The US TPGs have this habit of grading proofs as PL, PL with cameo, PL with deep cameo and even VIP. Ok VIP is plain enough but what is this CAM and DEEP CAM and where does deep cam meet VIP? Are they just nitpicking.

Gary

Well, I'm not sure nitpicking is the right word, but I think they are pretty much on their own when they get to those heights, for most of us, 'proof' is good enough.

Does Cameo not usually refer to what we call silver proof's ?

In which case trying to grade those is ridiculous.

[RLC35]

Cameo refers to the frosted effigy, against the mirrored flat surfaces of the proof coin. A deep Cameo refers to an exceptionally well defined effigy against a mirrored background. Where you start and stop within the two designations...who knows! LOL!

[Leviathan]

If they can get an extra dollar out of it, they will invent a new grade.... annoying tbh

[Peckris]

To be honest, ALL proofs should be cameo (frosted/mirror), but we had a lousy strike of proofs in the 20th Century. 1937 are a BIT frosted, but everything after that, from 1950 to 1979, were just shoddy strikings, which really don't look any better than the modern BU specimen sets.

VIPs were usually far superior proof strikes (though not invariably).

[VickySilver]

Cameo versus deep cameo is supposed to be an index of reflectivity of the field mirrors and not just the amount of contrast between field and device. My recollection is that it is something like 4 inches for cameo and 9 inches for deep cameo.I agree that proofs up until 1937 (excluding mattes) do not have good reflectivity and even some afterwards such as the 1951 crown. This shows a relative lack of die preparation and sadly detracts greatly from the appearance of many George V pieces.

[Peckris]

Cameo versus deep cameo is supposed to be an index of reflectivity of the field mirrors and not just the amount of contrast between field and device. My recollection is that it is something like 4 inches for cameo and 9 inches for deep cameo.I agree that proofs up until 1937 (excluding mattes) do not have good reflectivity and even some afterwards such as the 1951 crown. This shows a relative lack of die preparation and sadly detracts greatly from the appearance of many George V pieces.

I was referring to the frosted nature of proofs, which is lamentably lacking from most proofs (VIP excluded) after 1937 and before 1980. Pathetic is not too strong a word - there's virtually no frosting at all.