On the subject of forgeries...

[£400 for a Penny ?]

Got this the other day..

[azda]

Geeez, that doesn't even look like a quid

[£400 for a Penny ?]

It's a shocker for sure.

[Farmer Palmer]

Is weight and dimensions correct ? Im thinking if so its adequate for vending machines.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

I think it's a job for a 19 year old corner shop assistant, not a vending machine.

[Farmer Palmer]

Aye , i know what you mean.I do a lot of work over in the US and recently they began issueing "golden dollars" much like our pound coins,slightly bigger though.Trying to spend them is something else entirely as a lot of shop assistants hadnt seen them before so balked at accepting them.One occasion ill never forget was a well known fast food outlet,i was hungry and on the road.Looking at small bills to pay i noticed a 2 dollar bill so used that along with a couple of ones.

First the assistant refused to accept it , i told him its US currency and he's best get the manager to confirm before my dinner got cold.The manager was no better and hinted id botched my counterfeit print operation which might have offended some but i found highly amusing as id always wondered about the average intelligence here.

The only other bill i had was 100 and they cant make change of that.No , i didnt get my meal nor was i happy.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

That's an interesting story.

It's funny how nothing is ever new.

Back in the days of hammered coinage, as you know, clipping was rife and frequent were the arguments, often leading to blows over the weight of specie offered in payment for goods at market.

Call that a shilling, you.......

[Farmer Palmer]

Thats funny , i do own around a dozen decent hammereds and almost all of them are clipped to some extent with the notable exception of an Alexander lll.

Using google books(very useful)ive downloaded dozens of authentic old british coin books which explain the history very well.You will see unscrupulous ebay sellers offering these books on cd,they are free to everyone using google books.Just type google books into google.

I digress, the interesting point being and im not trying to be racist or anti semite but all of these books intimate there were a certain group of people known to be doing the clipping even though it was illegal and possibly treason,punishable with extreme measures.

From what i can gather this "group" of people were basically ran out of Britain,told to take a hike as it were.Id be interested on any other information.Obviously im not nieve enough to think it was only that one group,im sure lots of people were doing it,yet the blame seems mostly to be in that one direction.

[Leviathan]

Well imagine the fun and games I have trying to spend my Northern Irish pound sterling over in England... it is always interesting

That said, I can and do see their pov, and try to change my notes to BoE before arriving.

[azda]

Lol, try spending any Scottish notes in England

Edited May 10, 2010 by azda

[declanwmagee]

When I'm rich and famous I think I'll spend sovereigns at their face value. I've always wanted to do that.

Before the Great Cupro-nickel Shrinkage of '92 I frequently slipped pre-47 silver into circulation when I'd kicked it out of my collection - no point in trying to sell it to a dealer in them days, of course. Pre-ebay too.

Never tried to spend a crown though. What about a piedfort? That'd be a laugh.

[Farmer Palmer]

Lol, try spending any Scottish notes in England

That was true at one time and to my mind was a ruse to rip people off back then as many shopkeepers/bar staff and the like would at first refuse to take Scottish notes and then offer 70p on the pound once the Scot visiter realised it was that or nothing.

I was aware for a long time latterly though that just about anywhere would in fact accept Scots banknotes gladly,this no doubt changed again when England did away with the pound note in favour of the coin while Scotland has held on to the note while using the coins in tandem.

With Irish punts ive never had a problem spending those in Scotland , in fact many areas up north towards Argyll used to accept the US dollar and had the exchange rates posted above the counter or in my case behind the bar

[£400 for a Penny ?]

When I was about 17, I went on a skiing holiday to northern Italy, the Lira was in flames.

I was in a supermarket buying whatever, and I handed the checkout girl a note and she just snorted at me and bunged about two handfulls of penny chews at me as my change.

I didn't sit down afterwards and work out whether a Blackjack was worth more than a Rhubarb and Custard, although obviously, I should have done.

None, however, were in UNC...

As you suggest Farmer, I think away from the high street, all sorts of things go on. I have a mate who feeds his family off the back of an agreement with his local butcher of £1.50 a cleaned rabbit.

The Scots notes were made 'optional' I believe because there were a lot of forgeries specifically targeted in England where folk were unfamiliar with them on a day to day basis, open season for the forger.

The last £20 note lasted a very short time for different reasons and has now been replaced by a high tech version.

On a non numismatic note, I recently renewed my passport - stuffed full of devices, watermarks and gawd knows what, quite a difference to the old one.

Forgery is almost a legitimate industry now, like piracy.

[Farmer Palmer]

Yep , and did you know most employers now require a valid UK passport at the interview regardless of where one was born ? I found out the hard way and had to fast track a new passport.Like yourself i was amazed at the amount of information required these days.

They wanted birth certificates of my parents , copies of my parents passports , my Dads death certificate ,my military papers even though im no longer active , i cant remember half of what was required.All that information was scanned on to the small computer chip near the back page.Its not so easy to get a British passport these days which has to be a good thing,well..not so easy for a British subject to get one.

[scott]

awesome fake pound that, i got some very good fake pounds and some howlers

[1949threepence]

Got this the other day..

Like most of the fake £1 coins, it's not very good, and child's play to spot. Most have blurred strikes, the wrong inscription, and often the wrong reverse for the year given.

I suppose the forgers have been so careless because they know they can get away with it. Apart from banks, it's probably only us coin collectors that even bother looking at them.

[TomGoodheart]

I suppose the forgers have been so careless because they know they can get away with it. Apart from banks, it's probably only us coin collectors that even bother looking at them.

Indeed. If you did hand it in then they wouldn't give you £1 for it. Which leaves most people with the choice of passing it on or making a loss. Same as in ye olden days in fact, except now nobody will chop a bit off you for posession of a fake.

I collected enough counterfeit (are they good enough to call that?) £1 coins to have an (preferably extremely poor!) example from most dates since 1997. My 'worst' examples are made from lead which has then been painted gold. Pass them off once and after that the paint wears off so a real shoddy job! But numismatically interesting.

Edited May 11, 2010 by TomGoodheart

[1949threepence]

I suppose the forgers have been so careless because they know they can get away with it. Apart from banks, it's probably only us coin collectors that even bother looking at them.

Indeed. If you did hand it in then they wouldn't give you £1 for it. Whihc leaves most people with the choice of passing it on or making a loss. Same as in ye olden days in fact, except now nobody will chop a bit off you for posession of a fake.

I collected enough counterfeit (are they good enough to call that?) £1 coins to have an (preferably extremely poor!) example from most dates since 1997. My 'worst' examples are made from lead which has then been painted gold. Pass them off once and after that the paint wears off so a real shoddy job! But numismatically interesting.

I'm afraid I do pass them on as I really don't see why I should sustain a loss based solely on personal knowledge.

Ironically enough the fakes are often given in change from the very establishments who take such pains to check the £10 & £20 notes customers give them.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

I'm guessing that's lead Tom ?

Certainly not taking the contact with other coins very well by the looks of it.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

I'm afraid I do pass them on as I really don't see why I should sustain a loss based solely on personal knowledge.

Well, what else can you do ? One has to pass them on.

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the Royal Mint reaction ?

Bi-metallic pound anyone ?

Oh, or is that a Euro......

[1949threepence]

I'm afraid I do pass them on as I really don't see why I should sustain a loss based solely on personal knowledge.

Well, what else can you do ? One has to pass them on.

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for the Royal Mint reaction ?

Bi-metallic pound anyone ?

Oh, or is that a Euro......

Neh ~ that's one concession Nick Clegg will not have been able to extract from David Cameron

[Peckris]

I suppose the forgers have been so careless because they know they can get away with it. Apart from banks, it's probably only us coin collectors that even bother looking at them.

Indeed. If you did hand it in then they wouldn't give you £1 for it. Which leaves most people with the choice of passing it on or making a loss. Same as in ye olden days in fact, except now nobody will chop a bit off you for posession of a fake.

I collected enough counterfeit (are they good enough to call that?) £1 coins to have an (preferably extremely poor!) example from most dates since 1997. My 'worst' examples are made from lead which has then been painted gold. Pass them off once and after that the paint wears off so a real shoddy job! But numismatically interesting.

Lead? More valuable than brass, surely?

[Farmer Palmer]

Hi Guys , heres an interesting one.In no way am i saying its a replica or if its genuine although i am leaning heavily to the former.

Luckily i already own one of these to compare with albeit mine is an ex jewelry piece (which at least would seem to confirm its probably genuine)Considering its the same date and same mint i struggle to understand why some of the small details like the dots are missing.

Any comments greatly appreciated as it would seem either mine is a fake or this one is , there should be dots after the words is telling me its this one.

[£400 for a Penny ?]

First impression is that it looks ok, but what is it and I'll get the books out.

Shilling?

[Red Riley]

Hi Guys , heres an interesting one.In no way am i saying its a replica or if its genuine although i am leaning heavily to the former.

Luckily i already own one of these to compare with albeit mine is an ex jewelry piece (which at least would seem to confirm its probably genuine)Considering its the same date and same mint i struggle to understand why some of the small details like the dots are missing.

Any comments greatly appreciated as it would seem either mine is a fake or this one is , there should be dots after the words is telling me its this one.

I don't want to downplay the forgery issue, but we have to remember that 99% of coins in the market are still genuine and many of the 1% that aren't are unconvincing. In the case of early milled issues, the original coins were typified by their variety. Spinks list varieties for many years and you only have to have been a member of this forum for a little while to realise that new (or newly recognised) variations turn up all the time. Yes, we have to be wary and it pays to arm yourself with the appropriate tools such an accurate pair of scales, but still the vast bulk of coins will turn out to be genuine.

As I mentioned above, the method by which modern forgeries are made would mean that if there is an item such as a dot missing, then that is because the original (and genuine) coin from which the die was made also had this feature. Modern day forgers are not going to go to the trouble of completely recutting a die when a few pounds on e-bay would provide them with the genuine article. Contemporary forgeries are different, usually being made of the wrong material, often with a wash of silver or gold to hide the base metal underneath. Most of these just don't feel right and a reasonably competent numismatist can smell them a mile off; there are of course exceptions but they are in a very small minority.

Going back to the original coin (1707/8 2/6d?), you have provided a good quality picture and although this is a real hostage to fortune, I would be pretty convinced that it is the genuine article.